Troublesome blade

Hi,
I've recently decided to try my first restoration project.
I acquired a preatty battered Henry Barnascone from ebay and after several hours of hand sanding I decided to try and put an edge on it.

This is where the problem starts.
If I put the blade on the stone with the spine touching the stone, on one side both spine and edge touch the stone (see first picture) but on the other side it appears the spine is not straight and the edge towards the heel does not make contact with the stone. I hope you can see in the second picture the gap between edge and stone. I think this might be due to the heavy oxydation of a portion of the spine (there is still quite a bit of pitting).

I should probably have posted before doing it but, I taped the spine and honed the razor anyway trying to make sure the edge stayed in contact with the stone lifting the handle slightly while dragging the razor across the stone. Being not very experience at honing I found this exercise quite challenging. After a while I managed to put an edge good enough for a shave that was quite comfortable.
I feel though that the edge could be much better if I had a flat spine and could hone without having to worry about the contact with the stone.

Although the razor was very cheap and doesn't have any particular value to me, I'd like to learn as much as I can from this project.

My questions are:
-Should I try and flatten the spine? What is the best way of doing this? I suppose hone wear will be a consequence of doing this.
-The blade has a slight smile (as you can probably see from the picture I didn't really made a great job at sharpening the tip). Should I keep the smile or remove it for easier honing? I think the razor had it as the spine also has a sort of matching curve.

Sorry for the lengthy post and thanks in advance for the help.

what kind of stroke did you use for the honing?
Try magic marker to determine what stroke will provide contact between the bevel and the stone.
I think x-stroke at ~45 to the stone heel forward, or rolling x-stroke might work very well

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Originally Posted by mainaman

what kind of stroke did you use for the honing?
Try magic marker to determine what stroke will provide contact between the bevel and the stone.
I think x-stroke at ~45 to the stone heel forward, or rolling x-stroke might work very well

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Thanks,
I used an x-stroke at approximately 45 deg.

Ok how much hone wear is there on the blade, from the pics I can;t say it looks like there is no hone wear at all from that angle.

Dumb question but are you trying to hone the razor with the shoulder on the hone?

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Originally Posted by mainaman

Ok how much hone wear is there on the blade, from the pics I can;t say it looks like there is no hone wear at all from that angle.

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You are right, there is no hone wear.
I guess in order to flatten the spine (if it is really required) I would have to introduce an uneven wear of the spine. Would you have to protect the edge to avoid ending up with an uneven bevel?
The more I think about this the more it looks working on the honing technique is what is really required.

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Originally Posted by TrilliumLT

Dumb question but are you trying to hone the razor with the shoulder on the hone?

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Hi thanks for your question.
On one side the edge doesn't make full contact with the stone in the normal honing position with just the blade on the stone. The other side is fully touching the stone though.

It just was easier to hold the razor with one hand and the camera with the other to take the picture.

Ok do this use magic marker on the spine and the edge and run the razor on your polishing stone then see where the marker gets erased and where it does not this will give idea where you might have problematic areas on the blade. Let us know the result, a pic will be very helpful too.

Don't remove the smile. The razor was made that way.
For a restored wedge, I think you have a very even edge bevel. Just try to refine what you already have.
The gap in the 2nd pic is simply the tang lifting the heel & it (the tang) should not contact the stone when honing.

First of all thanks for the support.

Here are the before and after pictures with the magic marker.
I held the blade flat on the stone. Basically only the marker towards the tip has been removed confirming the gap between stone and edge towards the heel.

In response to onimaru55 I can say the gap is not due to the tang (unfortunately); the gap is there when the tang is off the stone as well.

ok can you do the same on the other side and post a pic?
Also as Oz said above the smile is there by design so do not remove it.

FWIW (from a honing novice):

This razor might have been honed on a narrow hone; you're using (probably) a wide hone, like a Norton (2-7/8"). Honing on a narrow hone could easily result in an edge which is sharp, but which isn't exactly parallel to the spine.

Or, the razor could be warped, or twisted. In either case, you can get the situation shown by the "marker test" in your photo.

It has been suggested (in previous posts by more-experienced people) that you might handle that situation by _pretending_ that the wide stone is a narrow stone. Imagine that there's a line drawn 1" from the edge of the hone. Use an X-stroke to sharpen, and be careful that the _whole edge_ is honed on that narrow strip between the line and the edge of the hone.

The "marker test" will tell you if that's working, or not. I think.

. . Charles

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Originally Posted by cpcohen1945

FWIW (from a honing novice):

This razor might have been honed on a narrow hone; you're using (probably) a wide hone, like a Norton (2-7/8"). Honing on a narrow hone could easily result in an edge which is sharp, but which isn't exactly parallel to the spine.

Or, the razor could be warped, or twisted. In either case, you can get the situation shown by the "marker test" in your photo.

It has been suggested (in previous posts by more-experienced people) that you might handle that situation by _pretending_ that the wide stone is a narrow stone. Imagine that there's a line drawn 1" from the edge of the hone. Use an X-stroke to sharpen, and be careful that the _whole edge_ is honed on that narrow strip between the line and the edge of the hone.

The "marker test" will tell you if that's working, or not. I think.

. . Charles

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Hone width does not matter, I want to see the pic of the other side to be sure but I think I can see what the problem.

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Originally Posted by CSquare

First of all thanks for the support.

Here are the before and after pictures with the magic marker.
I held the blade flat on the stone. Basically only the marker towards the tip has been removed confirming the gap between stone and edge towards the heel.

In response to onimaru55 I can say the gap is not due to the tang (unfortunately); the gap is there when the tang is off the stone as well.

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That gap is not abnormal. You just need to adjust your stroke to rock or roll into contact.
You cannot hone a worn smiling wedge with a flat stroke.

Here it is!
This time, despite the marker from the spine as not been removed completely it has almost completely disappeared from the edge.
Does this confirm your idea?

cpcohen1945, I read about pretending to work with a narrow hone and it's exactly what I tried to do.

Ok,
I think the problem is the blade is not straight it is bent slightly towards the side on the last pic.
So on the other side you do not get good contact from the half to the heel.
A stroke that will work for this scenario is rolling x stroke on the problematic side
Rolling X stroke - Straight Razor Place Wiki
and regular x-stroke on the side that is good.

you can practice the proper stroke motion ona higher grit stone to avoid wear then go back the bevel setter and set the bevel.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

Ok,
I think the problem is the blade is not straight it is bent slightly towards the side on the last pic.
So on the other side you do not get good contact from the half to the heel.
A stroke that will work for this scenario is rolling x stroke on the problematic side
Rolling X stroke - Straight Razor Place Wiki
and regular x-stroke on the side that is good.

you can practice the proper stroke motion ona higher grit stone to avoid wear then go back the bevel setter and set the bevel.

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Thank you very much, this makes sense.
So not all straights are....straight!

I'll keep working on the technique and see if I can improve the edge.

Thanks again for you help and time.

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Originally Posted by CSquare

So not all straights are....straight!

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In fact very few are straight :p
I'm honing a W&B right now that has the same warp as yours. Not uncommon at all.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

In fact very few are straight :p
I'm honing a W&B right now that has the same warp as yours. Not uncommon at all.

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I remember I had a Hamburg Ring that the whole blade was not perpendicular to the spine, it was at a bit of an angle it was fun honing it..

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Originally Posted by mainaman

I remember I had a Hamburg Ring that the whole blade was not perpendicular to the spine, it was at a bit of an angle it was fun honing it..

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I guess this makes the whole business of restoring, honing and using these razors more interesting; especially if you are an advanced user.