New Member - First Post & First Razor

Hello all. I am glad to have found this forum.

I have been a fan of antique razors since I was a child (all of my uncles, father, & grandfather had them). I have now made my first pruchase at a local flea market. I only spent $5 so no matter what I am happy with my purchase.

I am having some trouble learning more about this razor - I was hoping some resident experts could drop some knowledge on me. Also I am very much looking for the best information and techniques to restore and clean my finds (seller has a dozen more for $5 each, I am planning on picking them up Saturday).

Here are some pictures - I think the scales may be a plastic, but I am unsure. Stamp on handle says BEST SILVER STEEL SOLIGEN - GERMANY

The details of the man is a Blacksmith swinging down on an anvil
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...8181/razor.jpg



Darkened the image so that the print can be seen better
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x.../razordark.jpg



Backside of the razor
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...1/razor001.jpg

Just about any Solingen-made vintage razor is a good one. There's rust on the edge of this one, and it'll have to be ground away. There's not much hone wear on the spine, which is good. You'll want to remove any loose rust from the rest of the blade.

Start reading the Wiki's on this site, about restoration and honing. Welcome to the club.

Charles

I'm no expert but in my experience, fine-grit sandpaper and fine steel-wool will strip off the rust pretty darn good. If it's not that deep, then that's all you should need to do. Once you're down to metal again, just keep the razor dry between uses to stop it rusting up again.

It looks to be in pretty good shape, as stated above there isn't much hone wear and the edge seems nice and flat. The only thing that would concern me is the rust on the edge. If there is pitting into the edge under the rust then you might have a problem. I would suggest you read the hand sanding article in the wiki and watch the restoration video series they have up as well.

Finally, you should probably move this thread into the workshop part of the forum.

Thank you for your replies. I will be making a post in the Workshop area as soon as I begin the restoration process. I just want to know more about it before I make the mistake of not doing the job correctly. I really dont want to damage (or further damage) the etching.

Are there any good sites for figuring out what company, age, or any other general information about this razor?

I moved this thread from the Razor Forum to the Workshop forum. :)

The rust at the edge scares me. You wont know what you have until you remove the rust and try to set a bevel I suppose.

I am not intending to use this blade anytime soon. I just want to clean it up nice. I really do worry that I will destroy the etching.

I still dont know anything about this razor. I have yet to figure out the maker or approx. age. I cant seem to find any information about the etching, or the BEST SILVER stamp...which I assume is a common stamp.

If that "Solingen" is put on the blade with a gold wash (rather that etched _into_ the blade), it's going to come off as soon as you touch it with sandpaper. [I haven't worked on gold-washed razors, but that's what everyone else says.]

If it's actually etched into the blade, you should be able to use fine sandpaper _around_ it to get rid of most of the rust, and metal polish for the rust spot(s) actually within the etched area.

Charles

UPDATE - So I have been working patiently on this balde and I am done with it. I dont mean completed...Just DONE.

I cannot get the black oxidation off without removing the etching, so I am stopping. The scales cleaned up nice and quickly, I still need to get new pins. I am considering consulting one of the resident experts and paying to finish this by more experienced hands.

This has been a learning experience and I am not giving up. I have a few more razors that I picked up, and I am going to keep trying.

From top to bottom: Taylor Eye Witness Plunkett Liverpool WEDGE -- Wade & Butcher (has a big chip and two cracks - SAD) -- H. Sabish English Steel Special Sheffield -- T.T.C Diamond Stamp Damascus Steel Etching (etching is almost gone completely, stamp is shallow also).
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...1/razor002.jpg

First up - T.T.C. this is a nice blade: Half Hollow 5/8 - my favorite only because the Wade and Butcher is ruined.

when I first looked at your photos, I agreed with what Ben said about that edge corrosion. It's still hard to say how it looks from the photos, and that could be an adventure.

One thing that I started doing (after receiving this advice from the resto sages), is honing the razor until the bevel was set before doing any other work unless I was really confident about the integrity of the edge. It's a kick to the chucks when you spend a few days hand sanding a blade, only to end up with a highly polished swiss cheese edge. Anyway, good luck!

I got the T.T.C. cleaned up nicely, the sanding took whatever was left of the etching clean off, and the makers stamp also. The blade appears to have a wavy gleam to it...maybe more sanding to smooth it out???

The Taylor "Eye Witness" - cleaned up very nice. I am having a hard time getting a really nice mirror finish though. Honing is needed, and I am waiting on materials for scales (MOP, Paua, and mammoth ivory). I have some nice gazelle horn (in hand) that I need to cut into slabs. I am undecided which I am going to use.

I am hoping to add pictures after work. *** Not a straight razor, but I was gifted a Gillette Fat Boy adjustable that is very clean, and a Fuller Badger brush also very clean.

Welcome to the forum, JumboJohnny.

You're starting in style, despite their appearances. Don't worry about the lost W&B, that Taylor "Eye Witness" may be a great shaver. My own Taylor (an "Imperial Service" 11/16th curved beauty) is an awesome shaver. The Silver Steel looks like it may need major edge restoration to remove the frown. Probably not a good first honing project.

Cool gifts, have you used a non-pivoting safety razor before? Also, before you start removing those chips on the edges and revealing "fresh" steel have you investigated the advantages of taping the spine during intense metal removal?

Thanks AxelH.

I am done working on the Silver Steel - I just dont want completely ruin a nice blade. I have been reviewing some restorations and I think I have a couple members in mind that could probably do some good with that blade, so I will likely pay for that restoration - Or I will trade the blade for something a little less delicate for my inexperience.

As for the honing and taping, I am not going to be doing my own honing. I see a couple vendors on this site that will do a fine job and for a good cost too. I am only looking to hone the Taylor for now since that is going to be my shaver. The sanding and polishing I can do on my own, but I havent got the stones for honing (hidden joke in there).

I have used a non-pivot safety before, but not many times. My fiancee's grandmother just went into a home so I was given the brush and two razors as a thank you. The second razor I havent identified yet.

Hi about the eye witness yours is a plunkett not a taylors from my understanding .Im only saying this because i just got one the same ,lime st liverpool is where it says they were made and i cant find any other info on them im thinking they should be made befor 1890 ish i will post pics when it finally arrives.

I know its hard to see in the scan, but the "Eye" is the makers stamp for Taylor's Eye Witness. This blade is a Taylor. If you can post a link that can show me some different information I would greatly appreciate it. All links and images of makers marks that I have found indicate this is a Taylor.

http://www.strazors.com/index.php?id...s_eye_witness_

This link will show the marks that the company has used. My razor has the "Eye" with WITNESS stamped under it.

I like the shape of that W&B, pity it is cracked. I started 'restoring' (AKO 'destroying') an Emil Kronenberg on the weekend. It had rust on the blade and esp around the pivot, but not as bad as your first one posted. It also had a gold wash design. There was no way I could remove the rust and keep the design (in my completely ill-informed opinion). I took to it with wet and dry sandpaper (600) and a sanding pad. Plus courser paper for a little bit. It now looks shocking. HOWEVER, if I keep going I think it will eventually look beautiful, I reckon given the time anything might be possible. I've never done anything like this before. It's possible it could have been restored in another way, but I'm committing myself to the project. I may try and remove the scales soon and either buff them and replace them or try and fit some Thiers Izzard scales. I've NO idea what I'm doing, but it does give me something to do...

I am still very new to razors. I have done knives and other metal projects in the past so I have the tools and a foundation of related experience to work from. The scales are proving to be my biggest challenge so far.

That cracked W&B I cut down and grinder a bit, I made a separate post about it. It's about 1/2 inch now, I still need to finish an polish it, but it will shave soon.

I do apologize for never getting more pics up. I can't ever seem to find the time to snap a few shots. Too busy with all of my cleaning and sanding. Soon I will get some...I hope.

Also another "new" problem that I am having is with the buffing wheels on my grinder/buffer. When I am working a blade or reloading a wheel with compund, the wheel stopps turning while the machine is still on. They seem loose, like they arent the right size, but they came with the machine so they are correct. Does anybody have ideas about how I can secure the wheels better?

Ok i see what your saying about the eye witness stamp mine has it just the same and taylors are the only makers that i know of with that mark,so im thinking maybe plunketts bought blanks from them and then ground them and put their names on them as well mine says plunketts celebrated hollow ground set ready for use on blade and the tang is the same as yours. Looks like i need to find out if they sold their blades with just their eye witness mark.

Can you post a link to wherever you found information on "Plunkett" razors. I have googled and search the forums, but I have nothing showing up. I was under the impression that it was just one of the locations in which the Taylor was producing razors. I would be interested in learning a bit more about my razor.

eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d

try this link this one was on the bay.
as i was saying i cant find any information on them as cutlers or anything i have seen that most razors that say liverpool on them were really made in sheffield though.

Oh, I thought it was an actual informational site. A seller's description isnt really the most accurate thing to go by. I already sent an email to Taylor Eye Witness and asked if they could point me in the right direction for more historical information regarding their company. Hopefully it works.

Thats a great idea good luck let us know if you find anything out thanks.

Well jumbojohnny i got my razor today and on close inspection i think you are right it is an eye witness,where it says plunketts on the blade its in a different etch so it has been added on top of ,celebrated hollow ground set ready for use.The plunketts liverpool has also been added in next to the eye witness,So it would seem as though plunkett bought eye witness razors and exported them to the US but not befor putting their names to them.I do still think they are 1800s razors because there is no mark saying england on them.

It sounds like Plunkett may just have been the retailer. For various items, the manufacturer would put that on if requested, although it is less common with razors than some other things.

The silver steel razor was an excellent buy, and looks functionally sound as it is. The two problems (or potential problems) have been correctly identified. They are the possibility of the edge rust going deep enough to pierce through altogether, or deep enough to make a fragile, paper-thin blade when it is removed, and the difficulty of repolishing without removing the etching.

Hollow ground razors aren't all alike. With some, the thickness reduces all the way to the bevel. But with others the thinnest part is further back across the blade, which thickens slightly towards the edge. The latter is a much easier propect for restoration, as you can afford to remove more metal. I think there are diagrams illustrating this, in the Wiki and in the Wikipedia article on razors. It isn't easy to see the difference, especially in the sort of lighting antique shops often have, but you can generally feel it with your fingers.

For mechanical removal of rust, the best chance of keeping the etching is to glue fine abrasive paper to a rigid cylindrical object, of just the right curvature to fit the hollow grind. There may also be a case for chemical removal of rust. You will often see warnings against using acids on razors, and this is very true of anything aggressive. No chemical should be used on a razor that is reasonably well polished except for the occasional rust-spot. But the pink naval jelly type removes rust quite effectively, leaving a very fine pearl-grey surface, and you are no worse off sanding that, than sanding a rust-marked one. The pitted and unpitted parts of the recessed ground of the etching will be the same fine texture, which makes the pitting quite unobtrusive, and if it is too matt for your taste, metal polish on an old toothbrush will reduce it.

You should wipe naval jelly aside with a matchstick to see what is happening under it, and remove it all for inspection after a much shorter period than the instructions say. Ten one-minute applications are just as good as one ten-minute. Similarly weak diluted hydrochloric acid is pretty benign, if you start with it so weak that it does nothing whatever, and increase the strength progressively while watching it all the while. Hydrochloric acid is a major constituent of our gastric juices, so it is no exaggeration to say that people can be full of it. I wouldn't use sulphuric acid, even though it is easiest to get, and nitric acid is suitable only for etching, as the bnd between do-nothing strength and eroding steel is too narrow.

I havent got a response from Taylor, I assume that I wont be getting one. I wasnt expecting to hear back at all, so there is no disappointment I guess.

I would like to see some pictures of your razor BigG. My razor is a wedge with nothing on the blade (only the tang stamp). I have yet to decide what type of scales to use when reassembling. The blade itself is polished and ready to be honed and rescaled.

Cal- Those are some solid ideas, but I am certain that I am going to be leaving that Solingen alone for a while. I need to learn some more finess before I attempt to proceed. Its a nice blade and I dont want to strip it down and lose the etching (assuming it can be spared).

Ok here is the eye witness with the plunkett name on it.
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMG_8234.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMG_8236.jpg

Thats a nice looking razor. Mine doesnt have any etching or stamping on the blade, but I see what you mean about Plunkett's being a vendor possibly. With the markings on my tang I figured it was a location.

Google Maps gives innumerable streets, schools, companies etc. with the name Plunkett, but no towns or villages. A useful comparison is pocket watches and firearms, where it was entirely routine for the retailer's name and no other to be attached. I have a Charles Daly 10 gauge hammer shotgun which was actually made by a Prussian contractor and engraved with his name, and a pocket watch movement which was engraved in the 1830s or 40s with the name of a watchmaker in my small Scottish town. It isn't cut through the gilding on the brass movement plate, indicating that the anonymous makers probably did it for him.

It is less common for razors to be so marked, but not unknown. Incidentally the increasing depth of the Plunkett and Liverpool mark suggests to me that it isn't etched, but stamped, which would have had to be done before heat-treatment.

I believe I remember seeing "Wade and Butcher blank" stamped on a razor, but not surprisingly this seems uncommon practice. Anybody here, with a hacksaw, bench drill and files, could make a razor blank ready for grinding. (It is unlikely that we could make them fast enough, at least for a while, to finish and sell economically. But then, the same applies to a lot of Victorian technology, from nails on up.) It is the hollow grind and the heat treatment are the difficult part of razor making. So why buy in the blanks?

The blade has the etch, but the tang is stamped ,so from what you are saying Caledonian it looks as if eye witness made the razors for plunkett to export and stamped the plunkett liverpool on them befor they were heat treated that way plunkett was buying the finnished product ready for resale.

Here is a website that may help you find out who or what Plunkett was. I have only checked a 1900 directory, which shows nothing in Lime Street. If his business was a large one, it might just have been a registered office in a large building, while his real place of business was elsewhere.

http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/b1.asp

My guess is that Plunkett retailed or wholesaled these within the UK, rather than exported them. Razors are an unfruitful item for the archaeologist, for they are easy to carry and cheap to send, and anybody who travels takes his razor with him. Where they are found tells us relatively little.