Interesting read, thanks for the experiment.
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Interesting read, thanks for the experiment.
Geez Glen, glad you put an end to all that debate :roflmao
But seriously, thanks for doing the experiment, very interesting.
Yes indeed. Time for another double Chivas!Quote:
Originally Posted by baldy
Actually, the alcohol would be the same temperature as the surrounding air. Alcohol FEELS colder on our skin because it evaporates so quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caledonian
First Part - That is not all that kinetic energy means. For example, temperature is a measure of the average kinetic energy of the atoms/molecules of an object. I believe that the words kinetic energy in the quotation are referring to internal kinetic energy, not the kinetic energy you describe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caledonian
Second Part - Maybe I missed something, but was there a description of how deep the "harmless black oxide" goes? I think everyone's least favorite type of corrosion is the black stuff. Red comes right off the surface, leaving black behind. Getting the black out is usually more difficult, and it often leaves behind pitting. On the other hand, light surface staining may come right off with a metal polish. So the depth, which I didn't see mentioned, is really important to know. Also, I'm not sure at what stage people apply alcohol to their razors, but if it's after the razor is honed to shave ready (such as upon receiving a new razor from a shop/honer), any unnecessary corrosion to the edge can have a negative effect on the shave, so even the lightest oxidation can cause problems.
Actualll\y that was, I think, all kinetic energy means. The scientific community distinguishes it clearly from heat energy.Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
Kinetic energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No doubt we will hear from gssixgun if the corrosion experienced in this test is hard to remove. I think it won't be.
Alcohol will be colder than the air if evaporation is taking place, and many people have been convinced (although imputing to it the wrong effect, I believe) that it is.
The quote is talking about the molecular level, and the molecules certainly have kinetic energy regardless of whether or not one would say the alcohol has kinetic energy as a system. There is nothing incorrect about that statement.
If you want to look at wikipedia, look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat and search the page for "kinetic."
I thought this thread was going to be about another SRP get-together
Now that is funny!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by hoglahoo
That quote refers to heat energy added to a system being stored as kinetic energy of the particles. Atomic energy, far greater in magnitude, exists in the bonds that hold the atoms together. But heat is not being added, and atoms are not being split. This is a distraction from the valuable information we have seen in this experiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
If heat energy added to a system can be stored as kinetic energy of the particles, that means that, if the system has heat energy, the particles will have kinetic energy. It's as simple as - the particles are moving, and therefore they have kinetic energy. Also, the potential energy being referenced is most likely not a reference to atomic energy; it is probably to do with phase or some other physical arrangement (but that is off topic).
If you really want to say that moving particles don't have kinetic energy, that's fine, but every physicist I've ever met (including all the ones I worked with at FNAL) will completely disagree with you.
I am delighted to see hair-splitting going on in this thread. :rock:
(I bet nobody's made THAT joke around here before...)
Have you ever poured that stuff in a good cut? Talk about your kinetic energy!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:
Um, yeah...but its kinetic energy paled to my own when I was running at what approached light speed to get enough wind to cool it down :roflmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
I just put two nice razors (three actually) in denatured alcohol that was almost entirely ethanol with a trace of methyl alcohol this weekend (i.e., the stuff you would use to dissolve shellac).
I noticed that the razors discolored easily right off the bat, but then again, they didn't have fatty soap on them and they had drops of water on them from time to time. Autosol quickly (very very quickly) solved the problem, and there were no pits.
I guess everyone can do whatever they want, I'd keep the scales out of alcohol in case they are something that is dissolved or degraded in it, but whatever.
I wonder where one finds barbicide, other than those shops that only let people with a beutician's license in (and not online).
I wonder, too, how many of these razors have anything on them other than whatever's floating around in the air. I just received two, and the sellers honed both of them, which is something I could've done myself, I suppose. I don't know if that means that they were just used prior to that, but I don't think much of anything other than hepatitis B would survive any signficant period of being dry.
I think we're chasing around our fears most of the time, and what applies to a barber who is constantly using a razor on one person after another doesn't necessarily apply to us. At least not until we start hearing about people actually getting something from a straight razor. Surely it would be something we'd have heard about by now.
Interesting.. albeit threadsurrection. Thanks for running your test.
(Although... in all honesty... I only clicked on this thread because the title implied a "Hold my beer and watch this" moment.)
Hi,
I'm new to the forum. I'm a tinker at heart and love to work in my shop on various projects.
I hadn't read this thread, but I did my own experiment using 70% alcohol, usually use 90% but the store was out.
I used vintage straight razors from early 1800's to about 1920 with damaged scales moslty celluloid, and a few buffalo horn. in separate glass.
I also separated the black celluloid and the ivory colored celluloid.
I left them in totally submerged for 48 hours. I didn't take pictures but did thoroughly inspect them before starting.
The result: no damage to any razor blade or scale , no rust and about 90% of the gunk was dissolved from the scales.
I got beautiful urine colored alcohol.
The only places that didn't get completely cleaned were around the pivot and the wedge. I used a q-tip and 70% alcohol and cleaned up the rest of
the residue. I know barbicide will stain most light colored things although cleaning with Maas with get rid of it.
I repeated the same test with barbicide with the same result on the black celluloid and buffalo horn with the same result.
This is a GREAT forum and I've learned a TON about straight razors. Thanks to all the members like gssixgun & others who paved the way for other razor nuts!
I think we need a control group. How about Barbasol? Would this also cause the rust spots over extended soaking? I think wiping with oil after use would prevent the rust.
Gentlemen:
This is why telling people that soaking razors in Alcohol, is NOT a good idea..
This pic just came in by e-mail. a 1 Hour soak BTW, it really does depend on the razors and obviously other factors
Attachment 101457
That's why I disinfect my razors before putting my restoration tools on'em and then just give them a quick wipe with alcohol when I'm done. I typically use 1% bleach solution and yes, it will cause some rust spots that clean easily.. It will also reveal any existing pitting and other imperfections. Once I clean and polish the blade and re-scale it, I hone it up and finally wipe it down with alcohol. No issues with the finish that way.
OK so what are we supposed to clean our razors with? I was planning on wiping mine down with alcohol as a detergent, rinsing it off in the tap, maybe a smear of olive oil and thats it? Does that sound like a poor idea?
Sally's Beauty Supply has it. Anyone can shop there. They are a nationwide chain so there is a chance one might be near you. Otherwise yes they have a website online where it could be purchased.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
King Research - Original Barbicide 16 oz.
Of course you will NEED the jar to match!
King Research - Barbicide Disinfecting Jar
As far as the jar is concerned, l use an 8 ounce mason jarQuote:
Originally Posted by linearone
Just wiping down with alcohol will not have any negative effects. I've routinely cleaned the soap residue off my blades with alcohol for years and they're as good as new - the alcohol acts as a desiccant and removes any residual moisture. Just watch out around celluloid scales.Quote:
Originally Posted by linearone
Hot water and barsoap will be just fine,no chemicals needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by linearone
There is the difference, wiping is ok, soaking is sometime harmful,, Alcohol actually works because it dries, soaking does not make it work better...Quote:
Originally Posted by linearone
Leave the olive oil in the pan
Get any good gun product to protect against rust when stored
Many here use Camila oil for short term storage
Personally I have used a wd-40 wipe for years and never had a problem,,,
Using any of these products of course assumes that you rinse the blade before each shave..
Glen, do you suggest WD-40 for storage? I'm under the impression that it's thin enough that it dries out over time, and isn't the best thing to prevent rust on guns. I have no experience with it on razors.
Mineral oil sold for laxative use in pharmacies is also dirt cheap and protects metal surfaces for long-term storage. Don't use Cosmoline ;)
Just google it, there have been many tests done with tons of new gun products, the one thing that always stood out to me over the last 30 years is that plain old WD-40 is never #1 but always in the top 5 for rust prevention,, That is more telling then the latest wonder oil :pQuote:
Originally Posted by DFriedl
Long term storage is relative also, I take even my Collectables out once per year and clean and wipe them..
I would probably use a different option for muti-year storage
