What's REALLY hard to make???? THE FREAKIN WEDGE!!!!!!!!!

Good god I have been struggling all day trying to make wedges for three different razors. I just can't seem to get them to look the way I want. I end up messing it up and looking like crap! Scales are fun, pinning is easy. Making a wedge to fit with out messing up the scales is a beast. I have know idea how you all make them look so good. And as far as cutting a brass lined wedge, mine look like absolute crap. I cant get then smoothed out without looking horrible. I'm using hand tools BTW.
Maybe this Is why I hate golf.....
ideas????

What I did was cut the wedge out oversized, drilled the pivot and then played around to get the taper right. So assemble the razor with microfasteners, disassemble, sand the wedge taper and reassemble until the angles are right.

When that was done I pinned the wedge end of the scales, ground off the excess material with a dremel with 80 grit drum so it was flush with the scales and then polished it all up with sandpaper and micromesh. It took me a bit of time though, thats for sure..!

Bear in mind with the brass lined wedge the relative hardness of the materials you are using. Horn or acrylic will wear faster than the brass will, so you'll have to play around with that a bit.

Good luck and keep us posted.

I start by drilling a piece of material about 3/4" x 4" for the pin. I then have a handle attached to the back of the wedge, I sand the end to a taper. I then use a saw to cut out a square of the wedge material just behind the hole to make the back of the wedge. I then install the wedge with microfasteners and sand to shape. Done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deighaingeal

I start by drilling a piece of material about 3/4" x 4" for the pin. I then have a handle attached to the back of the wedge, I sand the end to a taper. I then use a saw to cut out a square of the wedge material just behind the hole to make the back of the wedge. I then install the wedge with microfasteners and sand to shape. Done.

---

the problem I'm running into is getting it to the shape of the scales.

Make slightly oversized to start with and then once the taper is right sand it all down flush with the scales. Thats probably the easiest way to do it IMO.

I rarely, if ever, cut my wedges to shape. That's why we have sandpaper. Its thin enough that it doesn't take that long.

how do you not mess up the scales? sand off the scales and then put back on to check?

While I probably don't have as much experience as some of the others on this board, I do just what you said. I sand the wedge seperately and check the fit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

how do you not mess up the scales? sand off the scales and then put back on to check?

---

Don't shape the scales first and the wedge second. Rough shape everything bigger than needed, then put the wedge in, then do the final shaping with everything together - as if it was all a single piece. I use microfastener's screws instead of pinning for this, so I can get things back apart. I like to pre-taper my wedge, then, when I test fit, I can take it out and re-taper if necessary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

the problem I'm running into is getting it to the shape of the scales.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deighaingeal

I rarely, if ever, cut my wedges to shape. That's why we have sandpaper. Its thin enough that it doesn't take that long.

---

I agree with deighaingeal. Pin it, then final shape it, unless you have clear scales. You may get dust between scales and wedge, so clear scales microfasteners, shape it, then pin and may still need to fine tune adjust.

You'll find this way the scales flow with the wedge better to, not just the wedge fitting the scales.

What I mean. When you sand the scales, they are flat together. But you then put a wedge there, it adds an angle and scale ends are no longer square with each other. More material appears to be on outboard vs inboard of scales. Sand when wedged, all goes smooth, headache lessens.

Good advice above. Don't think of the wedge as separate from the scales. It's all part of the same handle and should be worked as one piece, at least near the finishing stages.

If the wedge still bothers you, you could skip it and go "wedgeless". It's a real exercise in frustration.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...e-img_9868.jpg

Phillip

I taper my wedges by hand, I do not use power tools for my scales too.
I usually go 1x1" size for the wedge then rough cut to match the scales , then sand to fit the shape.
After that I polish all at the same time and adjust if anything comes up during assembly.

thanks all. I guess I have to chalk this up to the learning curve. I tried to finish the scales before getting the wedge sized. Clearly not the thing to do.

I think I also REALLY need a Belt/disc sander to make my life easier!!!:banghead:
Maybe time to take a drive to harbor freight!!!!!

I follow glens method in the wiki when I did it. but hand sanding sucks I feel your pain there. I got a set of calipers to measure the wedge from the razor I took apart. that helped me a lot.

*edit*
harbor freight has them for about 40 bucks for a belt sander and around 60 maybe a little more for the table model belt/disc combo. I been eye balling one

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bondpunk

I follow glens method in the wiki when I did it. but hand sanding sucks I feel your pain there. I got a set of calipers to measure the wedge from the razor I took apart. that helped me a lot.

*edit*
harbor freight has them for about 40 bucks for a belt sander and around 60 maybe a little more for the table model belt/disc combo. I been eye balling one

---

I'm heading there next paycheck!!!!!

Secret. Hand tools are better at precision work. With my scales I cut them on a bandsaw, rough shape the outline with a belt grinder, then I use a dremel sanding drum for rough tapering. Everything else is done by hand: sanding, final shaping, fitting and carving.
I have even carved a complete set or two by hand from a knife made from a broken razor.
Remember a single exposed (extremely sharp) blade is your best friend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

I'm heading there next paycheck!!!!!

---

+1 to the 60 dollar harbor freight belt/disc sander, I have it and it is amazing for the price, I have used it ALOT and it doesnt seem to quit yet, highly recommend it. Sometimes I even shape my wedges with the disc part and some SHUR double sided tape, works like a charm :)

I really need to pick up that sander, and a scroll saw. let me know when you get yours str8shooter. and watermark, I am glad you like yours...sometimes the quality of merchandise is lacking there, with an ok review I can buy with more confidence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bondpunk

I really need to pick up that sander, and a scroll saw. let me know when you get yours str8shooter. and watermark, I am glad you like yours...sometimes the quality of merchandise is lacking there, with an ok review I can buy with more confidence.

---

It may happen today:rock:

You have seen this right ???

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...wers-here.html

Here is a very easy tutorial that Icedog did

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...og-method.html

A lined wedge

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...ned-wedge.html


An entire restore with a lot about wedges

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...r-restore.html

and a Vid from Undream

http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...rt-finish.html



Some things to note,
Start the wedge material at a point less than the thickness of the tang of the razor then taper down from there, you do not need to figure out that taper, contrary to what some believe take it to sharp if ya want... When you lay the scale on it you can slide it back to where you want the angle to be :) this is what Icedog is showing you very well in his. Then drill...

I have always recommended starting at 1/2 the thickness of the tang, but that is for ease of fitting not because you have to..

Watch the angle of the wedge from top to bottom,, it can get off there...

Watch when you are using power tools and a meltable material as you can warp it

Watch when doing metal wedges as the biggest mistakes are burning your scales or not enough taper

Read and listen to those links as there are tons of tips in there that you will miss by rushing through them...


And the most important hint of all,, Look at the old vintage razor you are tearing apart BEFORE you tear it apart if at all possible as those guys are smarter then all of us, and knew a bit about making razors, balance, flex, and function, correctly...

Nice. That sander willi be great for roughing out shapes and thicknessing scales. Be sure to keep your sanding area clean. I blew up the motors on two 4x36 sanders in less than a year. Now I find it worth spending ten times the money for a sealed motor. I wouldn't have gotten started without the little guys, though.

Take Gerrit's hand-finishing advice to heart. I'm getting pretty darn good at shaping on the KMG, but I still get the best results by hand. Sharp blades and clean abrasives are the tools for quality work. Power tools just speed up the beginning steps.

Two other things just came to mind while browsing...

Gluing in the wedge????
To get a perfect fit many are gluing in at least one side

The Vintage razors were made all three ways Mostly they are not attached, but some had one side attached, and some were one piece or fully attached...
In my eyes if they were done that way in the past, then there is no right or wrong... I will tell you that with problem blades and problem materials that extra point of adjustment at the wedge is nice thing to have :)

The tightness of the build ???

As you can see in the Restore and Customs Gallery in fact above in Phillip's build , we tend to build to tighter tolerances then they did in the past... One reason is that the set of scales we build is for one razor and is custom fit to that razor.. Many of the Vintage razor houses did not even make the scales, they brought them sized in basically sm, med, lrg, & x-lrg and went from there...
Be careful when you start getting into tighter builds as there are things that need to be taken into account.

For example that oversize pivot hole in many of the Sheffielder's that was not an issue in the original scales, could become an issue in a finely fitted build like Phillip is showing off :)
The fact that many of the 1800's razors have a angle to their tang, wasn't an issue in the old Horn scales, they just warped to the razor but when you re-scale in G-10 or Acrylic that is super straight you find an issue...
This is when is is a nice thing to be able to adjust from both ends and to know how to re-adjust that wedge :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

You have seen this right ???

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...wers-here.html

Here is a very easy tutorial that Icedog did

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...og-method.html

A lined wedge

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...ned-wedge.html


An entire restore with a lot about wedges

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...r-restore.html

and a Vid from Undream

http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...rt-finish.html



Some things to note,
Start the wedge material at a point less than the thickness of the tang of the razor then taper down from there, you do not need to figure out that taper, contrary to what some believe take it to sharp if ya want... When you lay the scale on it you can slide it back to where you want the angle to be :) this is what Icedog is showing you very well in his. Then drill...

I have always recommended starting at 1/2 the thickness of the tang, but that is for ease of fitting not because you have to..

Watch the angle of the wedge from top to bottom,, it can get off there...

Watch when you are using power tools and a meltable material as you can warp it

Watch when doing metal wedges as the biggest mistakes are burning your scales or not enough taper

Read and listen to those links as there are tons of tips in there that you will miss by rushing through them...


And the most important hint of all,, Look at the old vintage razor you are tearing apart BEFORE you tear it apart if at all possible as those guys are smarter then all of us, and knew a bit about making razors, balance, flex, and function, correctly...

---

Thanks Glen
seen them. but using all hand tools sucked!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PDobson

Nice. That sander willi be great for roughing out shapes and thicknessing scales. Be sure to keep your sanding area clean. I blew up the motors on two 4x36 sanders in less than a year. Now I find it worth spending ten times the money for a sealed motor. I wouldn't have gotten started without the little guys, though.

Take Gerrit's hand-finishing advice to heart. I'm getting pretty darn good at shaping on the KMG, but I still get the best results by hand. Sharp blades and clean abrasives are the tools for quality work. Power tools just speed up the beginning steps.

---

Agreed but after sanding for hours by hand I got a little crazy!!! I picked it up today and already have fixed problems with three sets of scales. Mon I tackle the wedge again!!!

I watched the series from undream last night and it made me wanna buy a belt sander and buffing wheel set and drill press. Greaseless compounds look alot easier than hand sanding through 1500.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DerekC

I watched the series from undream last night and it made me wanna buy a belt sander and buffing wheel set and drill press. Greaseless compounds look alot easier than hand sanding through 1500.

---

Greaseless do seem alot easier however it is alot faster for something to go wrong, and ruin the blade. I just started to use greaseless, and was just using polishing compounds for a few months prior so I can really get the hang of the buffer. U would be surprised at how fast the blade can get hot on a sisal wheel and some black emory.

Hardly anybody copies the lead spacers often found on old razors, but it is true that the original makers knew what they were about. You can temporarily bolt or clamp two thin strips of metal to the tang (with the blade in the open position), insert a spacer half-way along if you think one is needed, and a piece of sheet lead at the rear end, then use a vice to squash the thing into the right shape.

I also like the wedgeless construction we sometimes see, with a single joint in line with the edge, and contouring of the inside of the scales used to give clearance instead of a wedge.

I picked up a belt sander, it made it quicker. I was able to ruin 2-3 pieces of wood much quicker with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stubear

Make slightly oversized to start with and then once the taper is right sand it all down flush with the scales. Thats probably the easiest way to do it IMO.

---

This is exactly what I do. This way you have a perfect match every time.

So after having some time to run some sets through I have come to realize my process was way off!! As has been stated, I leave the wedge end raw and form it up with the wedge installed with micro fasteners. Very fast and easy. thanks all. Just experimenting with different finishes and will start posting completions soon....

I'm new at this and probably am doing this wrong, but so far its working for me. The belt sander is the way to go!
I basically have the scales in final shape. Then I cut the spacer out and glue brass to each side. The whole spacer is oversized.

I then glue the spacer to one side of the scales. I drill through the pin hole through the spacer into a piece of scrap wood. Then after I pin the other scale on I GENTLY sand the spacer down to size.

On the 5 or 6 sets I've done I haven't ruined any scales yet. Your fear and paranoia about ruining all that work are good "guardians" to keep you from going to far and keeping a light touch on the sander.

If you want the spacer to fit perfectly you have to sand just a hair off the scales. that way everything looks like one piece.

Get a belt sander and a scroll saw. Life will be much easier and you'll enjoy the process a lot more.