About what are your estimate time ranges for restoration?
Polishing blades and making scales, etc....
That is, hour wise? About 10-12 hours total, days?
C utz
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About what are your estimate time ranges for restoration?
Polishing blades and making scales, etc....
That is, hour wise? About 10-12 hours total, days?
C utz
Really, it depends on the condition of the blade, scales, etc., your skill level, and the equipment you have to work with.
Yeah, there are quite a few factors, but, in general, I'd have to say 1 hour to satin finish a blade in already decent condition, 4-5 times as long for a high polish or mirror finish.
An hour or two to cut (by hand saw) and sand to shape some simple one piece no frills scales. The finish on the scales probably takes the longest, just because of the waiting time between coats. For CA, I'd say I can squeeze in 5 coats/day, but I don't use any special accelerating agents to cure the CA faster. If it's tung oil, at least a week as I'll have a full day of drying time between coats.
Finally, anywhere from 30mins to 2 hours to drills the holes, place and peen the pins, fit the wedge, and various other finishing tasks.
Usually I'm really only doing bits and pieces at a time over several days. I haven't as of yet gone through the entire process in on complete sitting. Ohh, btw, the only powertool I've been using thus far is a dremel.
Depends on how much money you've got :roflmao
Gary
bg42 is putting on a new set of scales for me on a w&b I got from ebay. I spent about 5 hours trying to get a mirror finish on it but couldn't get it perfect. I kept going from wanting a satin finish, but not being able to get it uniform enough without the flap wheel for the dremel and so giving up and polishing up with maas to an almost mirror finish. There was just some pitting I couldn't get off!!!:cry:
Yet here's a spot! What, will this razor ne'er be clean? Out, damned spot! out, I say! Yet who would have thought the old razor to have had so much rust and crap in it.
What's done cannot be undone.
To bed, to bed!
To remove the pitting with hand sanding from the blade it is about 6 to 8 hours for 6/8 or smaller blades. 8/8 takes about 10 hours. To date hand sanding is the only thing I know that gives excellent results with minimal risk to the blade.
If there is no pitting to remove then the refresh of the finish is a couple of hours.
Coming up with the shape, shaping and sanding the scales takes about two hours. CA finish takes another two to three for about 12 to 20 coats.
Brass wedge and pinning can take another hour.
Latest scales took longer. A couple of hours to do the brass etch artwork and prepare the negatives. An hour to etch the brass.
Add another hour for gluing the brass to the scales, sanding and polishing it.
Flap wheels are the best way to clean surface rust/shallow pitting with excellent results, no risk and no pitting, but they only go up to satin. For mirror, you'll have to to with Jason's drums or hand-sanding.
Ilija,
I got me flap wheels: 120, and today received the other two grits from widgetsupply - thanks to your tip. How long can you use a flap wheel? Say, 3-5 razors? I got two of each :D
Also, how do you go to mirror from flap 400? (I mean, got it - by hand, but what grit sandpaper?) I have a bunch of ole dogs I need to work on... in order to make them into beauties
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT
Actually, you can easily do 5 and probably as many as 9 per flap wheel. As for mirror, you can also use the dremel by making sanding drums Jason-style. He would be the better one to give you the rundown of the process, but you would have to go 600, 1000, 2000 and polish if you wanna do mirror.
question on the flap wheels.
i got some and they work fantastic.. but i recently did a pretty junk razor, by that i mean it had lots of gunk/tarnish... you know the stuff that makes the standpaper in the flap wheels look black and full. however you can see that the flap wheels have alot more to them inside. how do you take advantage of the inner (new) sandpaper on the flap wheels? how do you remove the outter gunked up edge? i feel like im wasting way too much of my flap wheel but i can't use it with all this gunk build up on the outter edge.
thanks,
~J
You take off the gunk by going over a clean surface, like an el-cheapo drinking glass. However, to prevent it from giving you problems again, clean the razor well with some cleaner/degreaser like lysol (bonus: antibacterial) and then with a metal polish like maas or clr metal clear. That will really reduce the amount of gunk that you have to deal with.
There are these blocks (forgot what they're called) that are kind of like a big eraser and used specifically for de-loading sandpaper once it gets full of crap. You can try that, but I'm not sure how well it'd work on flapwheels.
Also, before you start to sand, go over the blade with some steel wool. This usually removes any built up gunk that would really load up sandpaper.
I must have missed the valuable post on flap wheels.
I am also currious to see what they do to the finish. So far I have not found anything that gives me the results of hand sanding. Every rotary approach I have tried did not result in an even surface that I get from hand sanding. Especially when removing extensive pitting from the blade.
After reading this thread, I ordered myself a bunch of flap wheels and will give them a try when they arrive. I am desperate to find something to cut down on blade restoration time without sacrificing on the results.
I will post an update on my restoration time when they get here. I am looking forward to adding this: :y to that future post.
Vlad, I've been getting pretty even results under any light. Or you can get so far with them and finish by hand, thus saving yourself half the work. Try them out, you won't regret it.
vlad,
the flap wheels make the restoration, removing the gunk/ light rust and even some pitting (if it isnt too bad) very very easy. fast way to work thru it.
however, i would 100% agree with your statement that there is nothing as even and as perfect as hand sanding. the results i get from the flap wheels are very nice, no doubt, and thats enough for my own use or friends that im trying to get into straight shaving. but it is NOT as good as it could be or as good as the pictures i have seen long ago when you were posting alot of those picaso's you were doing for a while. wish you would start up again!!
perhaps a mix would result in something outstanding. the beginning and hard work is done by the flap wheels and then you finish each grit with some hand sanding to even it all out. that may be the ticket right there
~J
I find I can get some nice finishes with my home made dremel drums. It takes some practice to get a smooth finish, but I'm happy with the results. I have a bunch of pictures I've taken of blades finished with them. Almost all are around a 400grit satin, except for the goldedge, which went all the way up to 2000grit.
Doing a mix of both: flap wheels and hand sanding is what I am hoping for. Can't wait to receive mine. I ordered a few grits and types, just have to wait for USPS and Canada Post to do their stuff.
On the subject of results from sanding: Our eyes are very sensitive to a change in curvature in a reflection. That is why expensive, perfectly flat surfaces for lapping stones are called "optically flat". Any restoration work that does not preserve the flatness as much as possible will be perceived as "odd" looking.
Jason, flap wheels alone get the razor to a shine but if you look at the reflection you can see the ondulating surface. Hand sanding also distorts the surface from perfectly flat but not as much as flap wheels or any other rotational method.
The only rotatational method that won'd do this is a grinder with a perfectly matched diameter to the razor. Just like the original grinder that the razor was ground on. It needs to be stiff (stone is good) and grind the whole surface at once or equivalently by an even, linear traversal of the blade. Otherwise it is near impossible to create an optically even surface.
Hand sanding wins out only because it is done with a hard backing (sanding stick) which eliminates small scale ondulations. Getting an even grind takes some dexterity but because you are removing so little metal at a time it is much easier to control. As long as the uneven removal is random the overall metal removal will be even.
My personal take is that any method which lets you remove metal fast is high risk because any uneveness of travel accross the blade will cause uneven metal removal which will be immediately visible. Therefore, you will destroy many razors before getting the knack for doing it right.
This problem is magnified when you have to do a lot of metal removal to get rid of pitting. Every pass with the sanding instrument increases the chance of deviating from an ideal surface and is very, very hard to correct.
What I am shooting for is something that removes metal not more than 5 to 10 times faster than hand sanding. More than that and it will be too easy to screw up the surface and you can't put metal back. :)
Vlad, I am getting a UNIFORM surface when I do the flap wheels at the #3 setting of the Motomaster rotary tool. I actually test it under various lighting conditions just to make sure. By the way I have a better than 20-20 vision to make up for my slight hearing impairment :D
Vlad, I agree that it is damn near impossible to create that perfectly even and smooth grind with anything other than factory means. However, I do find that if the blade is in decent condition with little or no pitting, that flap wheels or my dremel drums can achieve a very nice finish with no decernable ondulations in the surface. If the blade has a lot of rust or pitting, then it's almost impossible to get that flawlessly smooth finish without regrinding. Though hand sanding and a ton of elbow grease will come close. It is however, much easier to bring the blade up to a decent look and shaveable condition with the rotary bits.
As for your flap wheels + hand sanding. I have no doubts that you'll find at least some success in this method. I often do some of the same with my dremel drums. Just let the rotary tool do the brunt of the work for each grit, and then finish up by hand.
When using my dremel drums, what I usually do to reduce the amount of steel being removed is work on the shank or some other piece to load up the sandpaper abit. Fresh sandpaper seems to cut so much faster than after it's been used, so loading it up allows more headroom. Then I'll go over the blade with the loose paper part at the tip that's been slightly loaded, and, do this only with very light or no pressure.
Anyway, I'm sure you'll figure out all the angles when you get your flap wheels. If there's anybody who can figure out the fastest way for a flawless finish, you're probably one of them :tu
Slow rotation speeds and slow deliberate continuous movement are the key.