A Couple of Scale Making Questions...

Hi Folks,

I've made my first set of scales :) I've made them out of spalted beech, and so far, they look lovely IMO :)

They are a little on the thick side at the moment, something that I plan on fixing this week. I don't have much workshop equipment, so I was thinking of making some sort of sanding rig with two pieces of wood, the sandpaper stuck to one piece and a spacer (a nut/bolt so I can adjust the hight if needed) between the pieces, then sanding each scale down to the thickness I require by rubbing the pieces together with the scale between the two until I get to the spacer. Does anyone have any other methods for reducing the thickness of scales by hand?

I wanted to use a brass wedge and make brass liners for them - can anyone give me any recommendations on thickness of the liner? I was thinking 0.9mm, but I wanted to see how thick other people make their liners before buying the brass. Other than the pins, do I need any glue or anything to keep the wood and liners together?

Finally, can anyone recommend what to treat the beech with please, just something simple not acrylic or other fancy coating.

Thanks!

kD.

I have not used brass liners, but I have attempted to make brass wedges. My only advice is to be careful with heat management. The brass will heat up when shaping the material if you use power tools. I wasn't careful enough and the heat ruined a few scales during final shaping and assembly. I suspect you'd have the same concern to manage around for brass liners.

Sounds like a cool project though. Have fun!

Brian

I hadn't thought about the heat. My plan was to draw around the scales on to the brass, then cut the shape out slightly large, using a Dremel (one of my only power tools!), then pinning between the scales and filing up to the them using a small hand file for the brass liners, and a final sand with wet and dry.

with your sanding rig, how are you keeping the scale afixed to the piece of wood with that has a spacer on it? If it is not held down tightly by something (glue or maybe double sided tape) then I don't think you'll have the easiest time rubbing the sandpaper over it.

The metal I buy for lined wedges is in the .005 -.010 thickness range

A hint here, if you make the scales and wedge correctly they should bow, if they bow, you are going to be trying to attach metal to wood on an inside curve...

This is not easy, and you are going to have to create what is called a "Mechanical Lock" to keep them together as the scales flex... ie: just simply glue will not work..

This is why so many metal lined scales on razors are built like a knife with a spacer and no flex, that error can cause a multitude of problems later on, trust me I have fixed to many from other "Experts"

If you decide that it is a path you are going to have to take, fire me a pm and I will go over some of the fixes with you...

Myself I try and make a razor function like a razor and have a wedge and bowed flexable scales :) other liners like G-10 or Acrylic work much easier because they will flex with the scale material, and if glued correctly the glue creates a good lock easily

Something else to make your life easier is buying 1/8" thin stock from a place like Woodworking Plans & Tools | Fine Woodworking Project & Supplies at Woodcraft , then you don't have to worry about sanding down to thickness. As far as finishes, there is a huge range you can do from the most rugged like CA, spray lacquers & poly's, to hand rubbing tongue oil.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TwistedOak

with your sanding rig, how are you keeping the scale afixed to the piece of wood with that has a spacer on it? If it is not held down tightly by something (glue or maybe double sided tape) then I don't think you'll have the easiest time rubbing the sandpaper over it.

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I was going to use double sided tape and try and not be so rough, I figure it will sand down eventually - I'm only about 2 or 3 mm too thick, using some Dovo Olive wood scales as a reference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

Something else to make your life easier is buying 1/8" thin stock from a place like Woodworking Plans & Tools | Fine Woodworking Project & Supplies at Woodcraft , then you don't have to worry about sanding down to thickness. As far as finishes, there is a huge range you can do from the most rugged like CA, spray lacquers & poly's, to hand rubbing tongue oil.

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I couldn't find anywhere that had stock this thin in the UK, so I ended up getting 12mm thick blanks, and cut them using a band saw to about ~5.5mm. I now need to sand them down further. The blade has come off the band saw, and won't stay aligned, so I ended up cutting the shape out by hand :)

This just happened to my old band saw. It would throw the blade after about 5 seconds. When I tried to adjust the wheels I saw that the tires were coming apart. After pricing new tires I just went to Harbor Freight and bought a new saw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

The metal I buy for lined wedges is in the .005 -.010 thickness range

A hint here, if you make the scales and wedge correctly they should bow, if they bow, you are going to be trying to attach metal to wood on an inside curve...

This is not easy, and you are going to have to create what is called a "Mechanical Lock" to keep them together as the scales flex... ie: just simply glue will not work..

This is why so many metal lined scales on razors are built like a knife with a spacer and no flex, that error can cause a multitude of problems later on, trust me I have fixed to many from other "Experts"

If you decide that it is a path you are going to have to take, fire me a pm and I will go over some of the fixes with you...

Myself I try and make a razor function like a razor and have a wedge and bowed flexable scales :) other liners like G-10 or Acrylic work much easier because they will flex with the scale material, and if glued correctly the glue creates a good lock easily

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I keep reading this over and over again and have to admit there are so many things that I haven't thought of. The fact that the scales should be curved has simply confused me :) I haven't factored this in at all, will this curve come from the shape of the wedge? if the wedge has a slight V to it, the scales would flare out, only to be pulled back in by the pin through the other end?

I haven't worked with, well, ANY of this material before, so I presumed the brass would be thin enough to just flex with the wood if there was any flex.

I'm just about to PM you. If it looks too difficult, I might skip the brass liners and just go for a brass wedge for the first set. I have enough wood for three more sets, so I could make two with liners, and two without, and build up my skills with the first two.

Kind of feels wrong putting a Double Arrow blade in these scales after the effort I'm putting into them :)

I'll post a picture later of where I'm up to with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KillerDr3w

I couldn't find anywhere that had stock this thin in the UK, so I ended up getting 12mm thick blanks, and cut them using a band saw to about ~5.5mm. I now need to sand them down further. The blade has come off the band saw, and won't stay aligned, so I ended up cutting the shape out by hand :)

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I found this website which does cherry wood in 1/8" thickness, but I haven't used them myself. Hobby's (under 'materials > wood' )

Picture as promised!

You opened another can of worms with the DA too, Double check the tang before you even start,about 50-60% of them are built with a curve :(

Set the tang down on a known flat surface on the front then on the back to see if it is straight there is nothing worse than building a nice straight set of scales then finding that the razor is crooked and you have to adjust after the build... You should do this with every razor but the Chinese ones have a high percentage of warp...

Yes the wedge creates the bow this is what creates tension when opening and closing the razor it also creates strength..

When the tang is pinned it should create a nice smooth angle that matches the wedge .. the height of the scales should also match the height of the tang as it comes out of the scales ready to strop that makes for an even transistion between the scales and the razor...

All these things make for a nice feel and balance when using the razor from stropping to shaving, you don't have to follow these rules however...

Understand everything I am saying here I did not invent, I started taking razors apart and looked and measured eveything on quite a few Vintage razors to figure this stuff out... There is no right or wrong but I have found that learning what those old farts have done for 200+ years makes for good builds


ps: Just saw the pics, That is good looking wood :tu


To sand them flat and thinner at the same time,, take two peices of flat wood that you can get a handle on (about 3/4" thick)
put carpet tape on one and put both the scales on that, then put carpet tape on the other and put the sandpaper there place one on a flat table or bench and sand with the other :) I use almost the same set up with a beltsander to get the thickness I want and have the two scales dead even

Excellent. I have a plan now. I think the scale making will go on hold for the week while I build a hand sanding rig to reduce the thickness.

Thanks for all the advice so far, I'll update the post when I've progressed. Once I get the thickness down I'll decide if I want to go for brass liners or not.

With regard to the DA, I have a Kropp 5/8 I can use and I'll keep a watch on eBay for anything that looks worthwhile. I haven't taken the DA out of the plastic scales yet, so I'm not sure just how bad it is. I can see the shoulder needs grinding down like some other posts recommend.