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Jason pointed out this 3150FPM belt-sander that he saw at Home Depot. Would 3150FPM be too fast for blade cleanup/rough work on the scales? Here's the link, but I don't guarantee that it will work. Let me know if it doesn't.
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/s...k=P_PartNumber
Bill, you're more than welcome to chime in :D
your link only links to the store site, no product. I looked through but didn't find one like you described. I would say that sounds a bit fast for light work, but maybe not. Perhaps if you lick the belt and gauge the damage, you can go from there.
Best of luck with that,
Haw Haw Haw
I don't think laughing would be your first reaction, but you never know.
I am removing all material that Lerch may find offensive or construe as a personal attack... bye bye, now...
I didn't exactly cover myself with glory when I worked with a 3450rpm grinder (used a junk blade). That's why I'd be worried to use a 3150fpm sander. It looks like you have to pay the big bucks for the good stuff.
Now I'm thinking of going REALLY low tech and pedal operated lol.
In the search box I typed in "belt sander". All of those could be used for rough scale work. None would be good for blade work For blade work use the flap wheels from widgetsupply.com
Just my two cents,:)
Randy, they're ineffective for the kind of issues that I'd like to be able to deal with. However, I've seen vids of Bill performing some magic on the belt sander, but I'm sure it's slower than 3000+fpm.
Ilija,
For blade work you would need a belt sander with speed control. I have a 4" belt sander without speed control and even with a 220 grit belt the grinding is too fast.
First it heats up the blade so there is almost a 100% chance of ruining the edge and it removes metal too fast. Without a lot of experience the blade would be ruined in seconds. Not a good way to build confidence in restoring blades.
Flap wheels are probably the safest choice. Hand sanding is another if you don't mind the elbow grease. :eek:
Vlad, I'm well aware of issues with a belt sander that's too fast and 3150fpm is at least 2x as fast as I'd like it to be. On the other hand, flap wheels are too slow for heavy resurfacing. There is one particular job that I wouldn't even CONSIDER doing by hand. Therefore I need something in between but it looks like it's way beyond my budget.
Ilija, I don't know what you mean by "wouldn't even CONSIDER doing by hand." :w
Hand sanding is a pain but does give good results. If you do it a bit at a time (1 to 2 hour sessions) you will be done with it before you know it.
Denis (aka SharkHat) sent me a 7/8 W&B a while back to see if I could do something with it. It was too much for him to attempt. He got it on e-bay for $5 but when he received it he saw that it was pitted and someone ran a rough grind wheel on one of the faces. Guess the sap thought he would refresh the razor with it but then came to his senses because only one pass was made. These were at 20 or 10 grit and were not recent either because the grind marks were tarnished not fresh.
I did not think it was restorable and in any case thought it would take way too much time. I offered to return it but Denis told me to keep it just in case I decide to do something with it.
Well, I just restored the blade and will post pictures of the blade a bit later. It turned out quite nice. I did it over a few days so it did not seem that difficult. I also used a bit of the coarse satin finishing wheels for my flexshaft to pick up the pace because I did not receive the flap wheels, yet.
Vlad, I'll give it a shot as I'm also working on rough-finishing a set of scales and who knows how many attempts it will take me to get the bolsters right. How would you advise to deal with an uneven spot on the spine (a good amount of pitting on it was removed)?
Ilija,
This is what I try to avoid when I restore a blade. In order to even it out you have to remove the same amount of metal everywhere else. Not just on the spine but the rest of the blade too. :eek:
This is practically impossible. This is why I prefer to go slower and remove metal evenly. If there is a pit that is much deeper than the rest I may opt out to just leave it in once it has been sufficiently reduced rather than remove too much metal everywhere else.
It is best to ignore the pitting and concentrate on even sanding. Once in a while check the pitting to see if you need to keep going. Other than that ignore the pitting. Trying to give more attention to the spots that have more pitting does nothing but make the blade uneven.
I would say leave the unevenness as is or you chance ruining the blade altogether. A little dip on the spine won't affect honing. A thinned out spine will.
Thanks Vlad... And gradual work with the 120 grit flap should even it out as well b/c I make sure I go over the whole blade evenly when I get to that stage.
Ilija, I have used the Craftsman belt sander, first link below, on three scales and the sander works pretty well if you are careful. As Vlad mentioned it will remove wood pretty quickly. I used 120 grit paper and now have 220. The unit uses 3X21 belts and runs at 394 to 820 ft./ min. I don't know what that is in RPM but it is pretty slow at the slowest speed. Since it has a three position handle I can run the sander upside down and lock the trigger and set the speed that I want and form the scales. I have thought about using it to grind blades but have not done so and am thinking that I may not because of the 3" belt which would be hard to do a blade that is near or less than 3". The flap wheels and Vlads sanding discs seem to be better.
Since them I have bought a Delta belt/disc sander, second link below, which is pretty cool. With this baby you can sand your scales vary nicely as it has a 1" belt and runs fairly slow and also do some minor work on your blades. You can get belts up to 330 grit. There is a pulley on the top of this unit that I have looked over and thought that maybe this may work to do some blade work haven't tried it yet. Bill Ellis actually has one of these. I call this unit my "Burr King" LOL.
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...seBVCookie=Yes
http://www.deltamachinery.com/index.asp?e=136&p=835
For fine work on steel that may be a bit fast. It equates to about 4800 passes across a 8" bench stone per minute. It is a little faster than a 6" bench grinder. For wood it should be okay depending on the grit of the belt. You might also look at the little Delta unit at Lowe's. The Delta is a 1 X 42" belt.
I did some teak knife scales with 220 paper and a 1/4 sheet orbital sander. That went pretty fast and I had to watch the pressure and motion across the wood. It was a lot easier than attempting to reduce the thickness by hand.
Rick
Would it be at all possible to just put one of those foot-pedal potentiometers on the belt sander to control it's speed?
The product is listed as having a 1/4hp induction motor, but my electrical engineering is a little hazy, so I don't know if there'd be any adverse effects.
Great thinking Jason!
Jason, it won't work with an induction motor. You need a brush motor for the pedal to work. I tried anyway with my belt sander and it did not work.
rats. Well, I still think I'll probably endup picking one up sometime; I only planned on using it for rough scale work anyway. $70 is the best price I could find. Can't seem to find many variable speed ones that are anywhere near my price range anyway.
Vlad, do you have any ideas for sourcing such a motor?Quote:
Originally Posted by vladsch
Try an industrial motor supplier. In Montreal we have Snowdon Electric. They sell all kinds of motors, parts and accessories. I am sure there are a few in Toronto.
You may even find a motor that fits the same form factor: mounts, dimensions and shaft.
Vlad, how did you try to slow yours down? The reason I'm asking is that I was discussing it with this mechanical engineer who had lots of hands-on experience with electrical work and he suggested a POSSIBLE solution using a SSR+pot setup. If you tried a different route and would like to try this one, I can scan the diagram that he drew.
Well I was Skyping with Joe today and convinced myself I needed a reasonable sander. Well that is..Joe convinced me.
I managed to find a Ryobi 1" vertical sander with side wheel disk sander for about $85.
I'm not going to use it on blades, just for scale shaping. I tried it tonight, what a difference, sooooooooo easy.
I also tried the doublesided carpet tape (found some Joe) and life is even easier.
Bill, if you're reading this, I've watched your video a few times :w and studied the pics and now all is clear as mud. Having the right tools makes all the difference. :y
Gary
Super, Gary! Ryobi makes a good tool, too. That's what my drill press is. :D
Iliya, did you really need to ask? Of course I want to see it. Even if I tried something similar he might have a different twist on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT
Thanks Gary and Joe, that is all the prodding that I needed. I have a 4x36 belt sander. It is good enough for shaping the scales but not ideal. I have been eye balling 1" sanders for the last week and now you guys have convinced me to pick one up. :y
I've got a 1" x 36" belt and a little 6" wheel. You can usually pick them up for under $100, $50 on sale. It's a great little tool, good for shaping, sharpening (tools NOT RAZORS) and all sorts.
If you don't use it already, buy some of the rubbery eraser like blocks that are used to clean sanding belts. What a difference in belt and disc life. As long as you don't damage the belt or cake the grit with something like wax, these erasers can take anything off of sandpaper. I picked mine up at Lee Valley for under $10 and I've been using it on two belt sanders, dremel sanding wheels, drum sanders in my drill press and sanding discs that I've got on my lathe. It's about a quarter gone, since it rubs away like an eraser, but I've been using it for about a year or so. Realistically, one of the best $2.50 investments I've ever made. I just picked up a new one in the USA a couple weeks back. It was at a discount tool place and they were about $4, but bigger than the lee valley version. I'll see if I can remember the name of the place. It was like a big discount hardware, but they had some larger planers, lathes and bandsaws.
Hi Gary, Those scales that are on that razor that you bought from me were made on the Delta 1" sander that I bought. That machine really makes things nicer. I use it on everything that needs a little bit sanding. As soon as I remember where I bought them I will post the link to where you can get up to 320 grit belts.
That rubber eraser that Matt is talking about is also cool. It actually works and cleans the belts.
Ah ha I found it...........I bought the belts from here, coastaltools.com, the 1" x 42" belts are at the link below. I also found a bunch of them on eBay for some ridiculously low price:
The second link takes you to eBay for some 1" x 42" belts:
http://coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftC...aaf+1162945985
http://search.ebay.com/1-x-42-belts_...tsearchZSearch
I have the eraser too. It does magic on the belts.
The one I have is 1.75 x 1.75 x 10". It lasts forever. I got it a couple of years ago and barely used up 1". These things pay for themselves in less than two belts by extending the belt's useful life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladsch
Dang...with the quality of work you do, I assumed you already had one.:eek: This is truly disheartening. With a sander more suited to scalemaking, you're going to be uncatchable now.
Joe,
I am flattered but I don't have any secrets and can't see why my results seem so unattainable.
Here is how I do it:
1. I take my time shaping them: start with 50 or 80 grit and finish with 220 grit on the belt sander.
2. Afterwards I take my time sanding the scales up to 2000 grit to get a smoothest possible finish. I sand by hand with a soft padded sanding block (2x5 piece of wood with foam rubber glued to it). I start with 220 to round out the shape. The belt sander is too ridgid for that.
3. Between rough sandings: 220, 320, 400, 600 and 1000 I apply a coat of Tung Oil or Danish Oil and let dry. Between 1000 and 2000 I do not. I find applying the finish between sandings helps maximize the grain and improves the finish. You have to sand out previous grit scratches out of the wood just like on metal or the finish won't be as good.
4. Buff with Tripoli, then White Diamond and buff with wax or 12 coats or more of CA and sand to 2000 and polish with MAAS.
I don't think that this sander will do more than let me work easier and maybe a bit faster but then most of the work is after the belt sander so there is not much room for improvement.
BTW, I just placed a special order with a local Home Depot competitor here in Montreal and I got a sweet deal on the Delta SA180 - $85 Canadian :y. I'll have it in about 10 days.
That is a good price Vlad I think that I had to pay $100 here at Lowes. This machine is a bit loud but nothing that we can't stand. I put mine on locking caster wheels so that I could swing it about easier from the 1" belt to the 8" disc sander as it is a bit heavy.