Weird question...felt scales?

Ok fellas, bare with me here...

I've been doing a little independent study of the artist Joseph Beuys and was thinking about his use of felt as a medium in his art and started thinking about using felt for scales.

What I'm thinking is...find some hard felt that I could cut into scales...then soak it in something that would harden it enough to work it a little more and would hold up to the pressure of peening...etc without bending/warping.

So here is my question...what (if anything) could I soak it in that might allow me to do this. Is it feasible or more "interesting idea (or not) but no"

PM dirtychrome and cannonfodder. They are scalemeisters that may have some thoughts on the matter.

Jerry

Never done it and know absolutely nothing about it. But I guess if you were to impregnate it with resin then clamp it, you would end up with something like Micarta.

Epoxy comes to mind.
Put some layers together with epoxy inbetween, and let dry under heavy pressure, and you got yourself some home made micarta :)
If you wanted to keep the felt look, perhaps saturation under vacuum could work?

Let us know if you decide to explore in this field :)

Best of luck.

Hey!

So I have been researching this for a couple of days. Felt is made from wool fibers, that are made from keratin. My initial thought was like the guys above to encase it in something. After thinking on it I wonder if you could use some chemicals like in a perm to chemically bond the scales in the shape you want. After doing the perm you would apply some lacquer or a thick yacht varnish. You can then use a softer metal pin like aluminum to prevent damaging the delicate scales.

So ... what do you think?

Carl.

Hmmm...interesting idea!

I've been looking at different felts and I'm thinking if I could find some high density felt about 3/16 thick (maybe industrial)...ideally what I would like to do is soak it in something that would really harden it. Then sand and round out the edges a bit...then varnish. I wonder if "perming" the felt would harden it enough to allow me to round off the edges with sandpaper...hmm. I'm going to get some felt and experiment

I could also line the scales to add a little weight and stabilize them if need be...

I know sometimes they will use lacquer or shellac on the hammers (hard felt covered wood) when voicing pianos. I would try soaking the felt in some sort of catalyzed liquid like an epoxy or polyester resin. Maybe work/knead the resin in with your hands and then lay it out flat to dry. If you have some way to pull a vacuum on it that would help with the soaking in.

I do not really know what I am doing here, I am just thinking out loud.

Charlie

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Originally Posted by easyace

Never done it and know absolutely nothing about it. But I guess if you were to impregnate it with resin then clamp it, you would end up with something like Micarta.

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That is what I would do....

I might add a base of linen or other woven fabric
perhaps fiber glass... even silk.

When compressing the felt will get thin so
take that into consideration.

Folk use paper too.

Sooo...how does one impregnate felt with resin? What do you think the thickness would end up being if I started with felt that was 1" thick?

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Originally Posted by ryanjewell

Sooo...how does one impregnate felt with resin? What do you think the thickness would end up being if I started with felt that was 1" thick?

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One inch felt.... Wow...
Depends on the density but would be very close to the crush
limit without resin.

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Originally Posted by ryanjewell

Sooo...how does one impregnate felt with resin?

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I would start with dinner by candle light.:rofl2:

I think 1 inch is way too thick. People have problems "wetting" or getting thin fiberglass sheets thoroughly soaked with epoxy, so I wouldnt bet on the 1 inch working. As others have said, the thin sheet route would be better. You could prolly even pigment the epoxy and get a nice layered effect if you wanted-but thats getting ahead of things. You could test compression by just wetting it with water and see how much it compresses, I would think.

You would want a long set epoxy. One option is glaze coat, which you can get a lowes, its good stuff and really handy. But there are professional epoxies that might be better suited that are designed to have their set times altered by controlling the ratio of epoxy to hardener. They might be thinner and better absorbed, too, glaze coat itsnt really designed to be used with cloth like that. Marine epoxies are supposed to be good.

I was thinking of doing something similar at one point. I ended up on a model RC plane forum. Those guys know alot about epoxies and using them with cloth to build structures, since thats how some of them make their planes. I dotn know if it thats specialized subset of model plane building or not, but I didnt have trouble running across it on the internet, if you're inclined to look. There was alot of info there--almost too much, in fact. It would have taken me a few hours reading to catch up and understand what they were talking about, and I really didnt feel like doing that at the time.

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Originally Posted by jaswarb

I would start with dinner by candle light.:rofl2:

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i was waiting for that.. :)

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Originally Posted by Pete_S

I think 1 inch is way too thick. People have problems "wetting" or getting thin fiberglass sheets thoroughly soaked with epoxy, so I wouldnt bet on the 1 inch working. As others have said, the thin sheet route would be better. You could prolly even pigment the epoxy and get a nice layered effect if you wanted-but thats getting ahead of things. You could test compression by just wetting it with water and see how much it compresses, I would think.

You would want a long set epoxy. One option is glaze coat, which you can get a lowes, its good stuff and really handy. But there are professional epoxies that might be better suited that are designed to have their set times altered by controlling the ratio of epoxy to hardener. They might be thinner and better absorbed, too, glaze coat itsnt really designed to be used with cloth like that. Marine epoxies are supposed to be good.

I was thinking of doing something similar at one point. I ended up on a model RC plane forum. Those guys know alot about epoxies and using them with cloth to build structures, since thats how some of them make their planes. I dotn know if it thats specialized subset of model plane building or not, but I didnt have trouble running across it on the internet, if you're inclined to look. There was alot of info there--almost too much, in fact. It would have taken me a few hours reading to catch up and understand what they were talking about, and I really didnt feel like doing that at the time.

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I guess what i was thinking is soak the one inch in resin and really work it in there...then press. Once you soak and press it would slim down do the roughly 3/16 end product i was aiming for and it would be pretty solid. then some shaping and then epoxy coat.

soaking thinner sheets then pressing together makes a bit more sense...i really have no idea what i'm doing here :)

Really the issue with this type of material is how successful you are wetting the substrate. The commonly accepted method is to vacuum bag the soaked fabric using a slow set epoxy. One might investigate the common "sweater bags" and place several layers of wet material remove the air and let it cure overnight. Air pressure works in this instance to apply pressure in all directions whereas pressing or crushing would require some type of die. What results should be a "plank" of felt fully soaked which could be cut to size, sanded, and finished into scales. The felt is an intriguing material as it can easily be manufactured from woolen yarn most any color or combinations.

A couple 'C' clamps and some 2x4" scrap and you have a press.
The larger the bit you are trying to work with the more clamps.

You should be able to find a lot of info on the net. The key
is that the resin is not all that strong but the fabric can be.
Layers of silk ribbon and cotton/linen this and that can be combined
in many ways.

Hmmm. I think I need to make a Tie-dye razor.

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

A couple 'C' clamps and some 2x4" scrap and you have a press.
The larger the bit you are trying to work with the more clamps.

You should be able to find a lot of info on the net. The key
is that the resin is not all that strong but the fabric can be.
Layers of silk ribbon and cotton/linen this and that can be combined
in many ways.

Hmmm. I think I need to make a Tie-dye razor.

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Sounds perfect for the fabled chronik blade :)

Another bit of advice; use wax paper. Nothing like checking to see how your micarta has set up only to realize that it is permanently bonded to your press.

If you clamp it isn't it going to bond with the clamp?

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Originally Posted by straightrazorheaven

If you clamp it isn't it going to bond with the clamp?

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That is why Theseus wisely recommended wax paper :)

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Originally Posted by Theseus

Another bit of advice; use wax paper. Nothing like checking to see how your micarta has set up only to realize that it is permanently bonded to your press.

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With epoxy.... use layers of protection:
wax paper, aluminum foil, wax paper, aluminum foil (all with enough room to deal with the extra epoxy that gets pressed out.

Any single layer might have a pin hole large enough for glue to bond to something on the other side.