Bending horn (back again...)

OK. A little while back I asked how you guys recommend bending horn. I got replies that basically involved heat gently, then clamp flat till cool. Since I do not have a heat gun (as cheap as they might be, I never got around to buying one), so I opted for the hot water trick. After having sanded the scales clean (but not to the finished polish), I put them in a pot of water, brought the water to a boil, removed them.

I then put them together and clamped them between 2 metal rulers. I'm thinking that I might need to redo this and clamp them individually to the metal surface. It 'somewhat' corrected the bend, but it is still slightly there.

Also, since then I have slathered superglue on the edges and cracks for reinforcement.

My question is, do you think that boiling the scales with dried superglue would be a problem? Should I sand down the glue first?

Thanks!
C utz

P.S. YES, this is ANOTHER razor I am trying to restore. I have been bitten by the restoration bug!!

Actually, What I am most concerned with, is whether the horn will eventually bend back over time?

C utz

I wish I could help but as I recently started with wood and haven't done any horn work the only help I can offer is a bump :o

Thanks Firestart, I appreciate the offer :)

WELL, I decided to wing it.....
I sanded down the superglue. What was interesting is that while sanding you can 'see' where the glue is versus the horn. The glue remains grey while sanding, so you can tell when you have sanded down to the horn.

This horn is VERY old and dry. It looks its age, and I'm guessing that is about 100-150 years old. There are more threatening cracks and split's than I know what to do. Every fiber looks like a potential split to happen. I'm thinking that even if I DO get this horn straight, the tension of pinning it tight is just tempting one of these cracks to make a break for it!

SO, after sanding this thing up to 400grit, I rubbed down the scales with some high end virgin olive oil and put them in a pot of water with about 1 tablespoon of the same olive oil. Brought the water up to a boil and let the scales boil for about 10min. The one scale (lesser bent of the two) is clamped to a metal ruler. The other is under a 35lb dumbbell between a metal ruler and a flat piece of wood.

We'll see if anything comes of it. I'd hate to use a 'new' set of scales, since I love the color/pattern that was hidden under the rough, chipping, old outer surface...

C utz

Sorry, Here is the picture of the scales, 'before' the olive oil bath....

I'm not sure if the olive oil is a bad thing or not, but with how dry these are, I figured it's natural, and 'what the hell!'...........

Chris, try pure neatsfoot oil. It's made by boiling horns and hooves, and will replace the natural oils in the horn (and leather) that have dried out or oxidized over time. I think this will work tons better than olive oil. In the future, if you have some dried out horn scales, neatsfoot oil works wonders on them.

Joe

Ah!

Thanks Joe! Do you think woodcraft will have this? I need to swing by and get some truoil :) What are the chances that the horn will bend back?

Do I just rub on the neatsfoot, soak it, boil it with the horn??

Thanks!
C utz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by C utz

Ah!

Thanks Joe! Do you think woodcraft will have this? I need to swing by and get some truoil :) What are the chances that the horn will bend back?

Do I just rub on the neatsfoot, soak it, boil it with the horn??

Thanks!
C utz

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I'm not sure whether woodcraft would have it. I wouldn't think so, but any tack shop or hardware store should. Make sure you get the pure neatsfoot oil, instead of the neatsfoot compound, which is petroleum based. I'd put it on after boiling. As far as the horn bending back, I wish I could tell you, but I honestly don't know. I made a set for Coully out of blonde horn, and so far, so good, but over time I don't know. I don't have a lot of experience working with raw horn. Just saying the neatsfoot oil has worked very well on some of the older horn scales I have.

Hm, I'm just talking here, but if the scales were very dry, a sudden hydration would probably weaken the structure... my experience comes from cigars, so you can laugh all you want :D

it's too late now, but I would start with oil (or Joe's stuff) and apply it for a while - e.g. several days. Then I would still avoid boiling, but maybe I am just paranoid... What's wrong with borrowing a heat gun from Michaels when they have a kid's Saturday activity hour or something? It will cost (if not free) $2, afair. Or I might go for a steaming over boiling water... seems safer

Cheers
Ivo

EDIT: forgot to say you can most likely go to Sunglasshut or an eyglasses store, they have the machine to heat and bend frames - and will do this either cheap or free, I think

Why I'll be a monky's uncle!

It appears that it worked! See the pictures below (sorry they are the best I can do with my scanner). It's not 'great' but still pretty damn good (I think). The top image is before I took the scales apart. The bottom image are the respective scales on the same sides, but after I boiled them in olive oil. The top scale (the one that was bent most = upwards) was kept under a 35lb dumbbell between a metal ruler and wood. The bottom scale was clamped flat to a metal ruler using large paper clamps and small vise clamps.

I HAVE ordered some pure neatsfoot (it's being shipped since it would be faster than me waiting till the weekend). Till then, I'm keeping the scales clamped between the metal rulers. When the neats foot comes I'll probably soak the scales in a plastic back for a fw days, periodically changing to fresh neatsfoot to dilute out the olive oil (I guess I'm more of a purist and would rather have horn 'stuff' in the horn), and then clamp it flat (if still needed). Hopefully by then I'll have the blade cleaned up....

Any thoughts??

C utz

Looking good. They are definetly straighter. I'm interested to see how the neatsfoot oil is going to work.

Ray

OK, this is where I am on this...
The horn scales have been clamped flat for the past week. On the advice of Joe Chandler, I have ordered some neatsfoot, and am going to try and dilute out the olive oil, and replace it with neatsfoot (since who has ever heard of olive oil horn?!). Let's keep keratin where it belongs!

SO, I have de-clamped the scales and they are soaking in neatsfoot in a small ziplock bag (see picture attached). I'll let this soak over night, switch the scales to fresh neatsfoot two more times tomorrow, wipe down the scales, and perhaps clamp them flat for a few more days....just to remind them what they should look like :D

I'm thinking that should do it! Then it'll be time to repin them to the restored blade. OH, I knew I was forgetting something. I need to finish the restoration of the blade.

Saturday = woodcraft. Pick up some truoil, and pick up some sand paper (600 and 800 grit).

C utz

AND done.

SO, the scales are finished. Literally. Kaput.
And when I say all that I mean, ruined.

I did it!
I admit, I went a little too far.
I did NOT listen to instinct.
I gave into curiousity without thought....

I put them, with neatsfoot, in the microwave to heat them.
It went something like this: hhmmmmmmm(microwave hum)mmm..crackle, crackle, POP!, fizz... And that's when I made it to the microwave to stop it.

All in all it took 20 seconds to destroy them. They poped/split outward on both scales at the same spot. Ruined.

HOWEVER, with that said... The neats foot worked great! If the scales had been boiled in hot water (NOT microwaved) and then soaked in the neats foot and then clamped flat I think it would have worked just as well, if not better than the olive oil. SO, this is something I'll pursue in the future when I come across scales that need to be re-bent.

One thing the neats foot did do was filled/oiled(?) the cracks. Notice the before and after images. The middle cracking in the to disappeared when the neats foot was added. The cracks are there but they are filled/oiled.

I do have to note though, that while the neatsfoot did make these less dry, the cracks WERE still present, albeit not as dry and visible. So the possablity for these scales to eventually crack over time was high. I'm wondering if horn scales this old should/could be stabilized like wood?

SO, what are your thoughts? I learned a lot. I also learned that I can still be a bonehead....however, that is often when I remember my mistakes most!

I'm going to be treating some OLD scales with neatsfoot, but they will remained attached to the blade, and there will be no heating :D JUST rubbing on some coats....

NOW, time to start making a new set of scales....from scratch this time.

C utz

With all that water in the scales, when you put them into the microwave it popcorned them.

It's too bad, a hair dryer on hi works fine as a heat gun.