finishes on woods...

In my experiments using different finishes for wood - so far only CA and tung oil - I found that there two finishes produce some noticably different results in feel as well as look.

I find that CA really brightens any wood, and gives it a greater look of depth, as well as makes it look more slick. It also preserves the exact colour of the wood, but usually adds some extra vivacity to it.

I find that tung oil, on the other hand, results in a finish that makes the wood appear flatter or more matte in colour that CA. It can still be brought to a good high gloss, but, seems different from the type of glossiness that CA brings out.

Since tung oil isn't glass clear like CA, it may also give the wood a slight hue. I noticed this quite abit when working with purpleheart. Linked here is a picture of some scales. The completely assembled razor is purpleheart with a tung oil finish, while the unpinned set is purpleheart with CA. There is a noticeable difference in colour between them. The CA finish gives a vivid, almost royal purple colour, while the tung oil has a more maroon hue to it. I also had some yellowheart scales with which I could compare the finish too. Here are two pictures so that you may see for yourself pic1 pic2 (sorry, but didn't take a side by side photo). Although the lighting is slightly different for the two pictures, one may still observe some differences between the two. I for one found that tung oil darkened the overall colour of the wood, while CA keep it bright.

There's also one other thing I've noticed between the two finishes. I find that any wood with a (for lack of more proper word) pearlescent grain is usually best suited with CA, as it pronounces and preserves said quality. It's hard to show without a video, as play of the grain is usually what makes this quality noticeable.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Just wondering if anyone else who has worked with wood finishes have had similar results. I'm also interested to heart what other kinds of finishes you guys use and their results.

I'd recommend you try the Traditional Oil Stock Finish #FK-F from Jim Chamber Flintlocks http://www.flintlocks.com/parts.htm

I've used this on gun stocks and it's finish is beautiful - it gives a deep, rich but clear finish like the CA but without the plastic look of CA, and it brings out the grain.

I recommend raising the grain before finishing - I'll make another post describing this.

For the first application, the wood is drenched with the finish to seal it and then wiped off. For subsequent coats, just apply a few drops and rubb it by hand - 10 to 15 coats in all.

If you get some, minimize exposure to air - it goes off fast in the air. I just pour out a little each time to use. Jim recommends putting marbles in the can as you use it to minimize the air in the can.

That marbles thing sounds like a good idea. Tung oil has the same problem with oxidation so I think I might try it with that too.

I'm not a fan of CA finish, although having said that I have a few of Bill's razors that are outstanding.

For me wood is a tactile material so I don't like to make it feel like plastic. Ca sure does do wonders for the appearance though.

I now use tung oil (gun woodstock oil) and after I've applied the coats I want, I finish off with briwax. I get a nice warm feel to the wood and I could get carried away and apply a bizillian coats to get high gloss if I wished.

Just my view on things.

Gary

Jason,

Nice comparison of the finishes and very accurate conclusion. The CA is beautiful and durable but Tung oil has a more pleasant feel to it. I apply a few coats of tung oil while sanding down the wood to bring out a deeper color and finish it with CA. A few thin coats of Tung oil tend to change the color a lot less and gives the wood a darker, wet color.

Tung Oil is problematic. It tends to gel with exposure to air. I settled on using the Tung Oil Sealer for all finishing because it is thinner and has less of the gel lumps that form in Tung Oil.

I tried an inert gas spray from Lee Valley to keep tung oil and other finishes that react with oxygen from lumping. It works well to prevent gelling of tung oil but is a bit pricey if you keep opening and resealing the container; it needs to be applied every time to displace the trapped air at the top. I use it only for the big can that I open when refilling the smaller one. I like the marble idea, it is a cheap and effective solution.

It sounds like Traditional Oil Stock Finish is possible alternative to CA when I don't need to create a thick coat to cover the brass. Thanks for the link.

It just occurred to me to try filling a syringe with the oil finish when starting a razor.

One can open the can only long enough to fill the syringe and then dispense the oil finish as needed from the syringe, not exposing it to the air between coats. :hmmm:

Vlad, could I do the same with Truoil and CA? Basically start off with a few coats of Truoil and then finish it with 6 coats of CA?

Does anybody use polyurethane two pack varnishes? I have some as i use them on my boat. Wouldn't they be pretty ideal for the rigors of the bathroom?

I was thinking of using a penetrating (thinned) epoxy to seal scales, followed by a few coats of polyurethane to protect the epoxy (as the epoxy is not uv stable and the PU is)?

Lots of very good information here guys :)

Vlad,
I was thinking of going with tung oil and then CA, glad to know someone else has already tried it and it works well. I was just worried whether or not the CA would adhere properly after coating with tung oil.

I also tried diluting my tung oil with mineral spirits like you mentioned back in my tung oil thread a long time ago. It seems to help the lumping problem. Also, I put the mix into one of those tin bottles that lighter fluid comes in. I've be having good results with that, it's a nice little dispenser that I can just squeeze some out when needed. So far it hasn't clogged at all, but I've only had very limited experience with it.

Tomebuesing,
I've already tried filling a syringe with tung oil. It partialy works, but the tung oil really gums up the action on the syringe :shrug: Not sure about other less viscous oils though.

ernestrom,
urethanes are a viable alternative, but in a discussion I had with matt (aka shavethebadger), he said he doesn't like them as much because they are a headache to repair, which is one reason he prefers tung oil.

As for the epoxy finish, I'm very interested to know about that. I've been kind of tinkering with it to use on some other type of scales, but I always have a problem with airbubbles forming. I just can't mix the binary liquids together without little bubbles forming. I heard acetone may be used to thin epoxy, but I don't have any, and, don't know how much you can add before it compromises the polymerization of the epoxy.

ToxIK you can use denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner to thin epoxies, it takes very little. It will coagulate when you first start to mix but will quickly smooth out.

I build fishing rods and use a product called flex cote this epoxy is crystal clear. I put the bottles into the microwave for 5-6 seconds to thin the glue a bit, mix in a small container and stir with a non-porous implement (I use a small metal spatula) this will cut down on the bubbles. Spread/pour out on a sheet of aluminum foil, this will give you more working time. You can use a heat gun or an alcohol lamp to carefully remove any bubbles still trapped.

I really love the purplewood one that I have from you (the one you showed in the pictures with blade I think?) but the one thing that would have been even better is if the wood would have looked more like it was purple. Like you said it's more of a maroon/red at the moment. And that's a shame with a wood with a unique color like purplewood.
I think it's a matter of matching wood-finish. I really like the pictures of the Yellowheart with the tung oil...a lot more than the CA finish. So maybe it's just a matter of experience to see what matches what the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 520dvx

ToxIK you can use denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner to thin epoxies, it takes very little. It will coagulate when you first start to mix but will quickly smooth out.

I build fishing rods and use a product called flex cote this epoxy is crystal clear. I put the bottles into the microwave for 5-6 seconds to thin the glue a bit, mix in a small container and stir with a non-porous implement (I use a small metal spatula) this will cut down on the bubbles. Spread/pour out on a sheet of aluminum foil, this will give you more working time. You can use a heat gun or an alcohol lamp to carefully remove any bubbles still trapped.

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Hrmm, the flex coat sounds interesting. Does it cure to a solid polymer that may be polished? What do you use to apply it anyway? and, how many coats?

Also, would mineral spirits work to thin epoxy as well? Wouldn't using a heat gun to remove air bubbles also start to set the epoxy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ToxIk

Hrmm, the flex coat sounds interesting. Does it cure to a solid polymer that may be polished? What do you use to apply it anyway? and, how many coats?

Also, would mineral spirits work to thin epoxy as well? Wouldn't using a heat gun to remove air bubbles also start to set the epoxy?

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ToxIk Flex Cote definitely dries hard but I have never tried to polish it, it is very glossy when set

I use the stainless steel spatula, but I have also used Taclon brushes too, both work quite well. I usually use two coats but I'm filling tread which will absorb more material than the scales will.

In all my years of painting/model building I have never used mineral spirits. I have used isopropyl alcohol in a pinch before and it worked fine, please test this first though. It will prolong the cure time of the epoxy but without ill effect.

Heat will speed any epoxies cure time, I don't apply heat until I have the glue in place. This will also thin the epoxy so I would recommend doing a bit of experimentation before applying it to anything you have time invested into.

If you mix the glue slowly with a non-porous implement this will keep most of the bubble at bay.

Sounds like it's worth experimenting with. I have some crystal clear devcon epoxy I can mess around with. Hopefully I can eventually grab some of that flex coat as well.

I just have one remaining curiosity though... How do you get an even coat when just applying it with a spatula? Don't you get surface variations of any sort?

Flex Cote is a much thinner epoxy than Devcon so it flattens out quite well. Keep in mind that when I am applying this to a rod blank it is rotating at a very slow RPM which helps to keep it on the blank.

I would not hesitate to try this on scales, you can apply in thin coats (I would use a brush) and add to it as necessary.

One other thing, Devcon epoxy should be applied in thin coats to insure flatness. If it's necessary to sand, wet sand it as it is like sanding a superball....

Yeah, I did a test with the devcon a few nights ago just to see how hard it cures to. Came out abit rubbery. So far the only epoxy I've used that cures rock solid and clear is some LePage epoxy that comes in little 1/2oz or so double syringe. Good stuff, but not all that economical :\

Bubbles in epxoy or other resin can be removed by sliding the container back and forth rapidly, or using an ultrasonic toothbrush, or setting it on a running washing machine, that sort of back and forth movement brings them to the surface. It may not make it bubble free but it will get rid of a lot and localise the remaining ones in a line that can then be avoided.

I think xylene can also be used to thin epoxies. Proprietary epoxy manufacturers supply their own thinners, i bet if you checked the MSDS sheets for those thinners you would find some clues ;)