New Tapered / threaded mandrel for sanding and buffing razors

Here are some work in progress pics of a new sander/buffer I am assembling using a 1/2" diameter stainless steel tapered & threaded mandrel, 24 : long, that our guy Geezer has made. His intent was to make a mandrel that did not require a separate set of cones on the end of a shaft. This is my first implementation of the sander/buffer and I am using an old arbor setup that I had saved. The clearance on each end is about 8.5 ". Since I will be running it at about 1000 rpm max I expect no wobble. Tomorrow I will be installing the arbor on a table & connecting it to a motor. More pics to follow.

Very cool!

Charlie

Here are some pics from Geezer to give another idea of using it in a lathe.

Attachment 106339Attachment 106340Attachment 106341

Looks great Randy, thanks for the pics. I can't wait to see it all setup.

Here are pics of the mandrel from Damon Blades , he is setting up a sander buffer also.......

This is how they are packaged and shipped.

I will be using 2 pillow block bearings for the next implementation of mine. Damon will probably finish his first! :)

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Originally Posted by spazola

Very cool!

Charlie

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Geezer was very pleased to see your buffer setup on Youtube after he started this project! :)

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Originally Posted by spazola

Very cool!
Charlie

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Thanks Charlie,
Your solution is a winner for any long shaft!
For those who didn't see it yet here is a link to the grinder/polisher that Randy pointed out to me when he heard what I was doing.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/forge/87222-building-new-grinder.html
~Richard

Oh, and here is the arbor before I cleaned it up and before Geezer helped me by getting it assembled correctly........... :)

Attachment 106356Attachment 106357Attachment 106358Attachment 106359Attachment 106360Attachment 106361

Cool, Randy. I'm rebuilding an old pulley driven grinder to use as a buffer. 1/4 hp/1750rpm, and about 3 inches of clearance. Not as long as yours, but it should work a lot better than my 2 speed grinder. Pics on request.

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Originally Posted by skipnord

Cool, Randy. I'm rebuilding an old pulley driven grinder to use as a buffer. 1/4 hp/1750rpm, and about 3 inches of clearance. Not as long as yours, but it should work a lot better than my 2 speed grinder. Pics on request.

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Hey Skip, :) post some pics of your setup in this thread please. The whole idea is to give people some ideas on how they can get setup.
If you have 3" of shaft on each side that would be workable but very tight.

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

. The clearance on each end is about 8.5 ". Since I will be running it at about 1000 rpm max I expect no wobble. Tomorrow I will be installing the arbor on a table & connecting it to a motor. More pics to follow.

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Why are you running it so far out? I would expect wobble to be an issue. I have good luck with my set up with. an adapter at each end of a motor. One has to be left and the other right hand threads. easy I will show pics if wanted. Not tonight!;)

Tim

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Originally Posted by 32t

Why are you running it so far out? I would expect wobble to be an issue. I have good luck with my set up with. an adapter at each end of a motor. One has to be left and the other right hand threads. easy I will show pics if wanted. Not tonight!;)

Tim

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Hey Tim :)
My primary use is for sanding razors, not buffing. That requires a speed much slower than 1750. More like 400-800 rpm . I do not expect any problem with wobble at the slower speeds and using small wheels of 1.5" to 3" max.
The reason for ~ 8" is for clearance of the entire blade. Check out Charlies video to see the advantage of clearance. You won't be pushing the tail of the razor into the motor/ bearings/chuck depending on the specific setup.

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

Hey Tim :)

The reason for ~ 8" is for clearance of the entire blade.

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I see your points but 8" is a little extreme. Are you leaving the scales on? ;)

Tim

Randy asked me to post some pictures of my low tech buffer. I bought the pulley driven grinder at a garage sale for $2, the motor was free, and I used about $15 worth of miscellanious to complete the unit. Since buffing wheel are thinner than grinding wheels, I was able to gain some extra space by adding 1/2 copper pipe spacers. This gives me enough room to buff virtually any size knife or razor. Posted FYI.
Attachment 106429Attachment 106430

Yup! :) I have an arbor/shaft almost identical to that. It has an old 1750 RPM 1/4 HP motor that runs like a champ. The downside is that I cannot reduce the speed to 400-800 range nor can I use a 1.75" diameter sanding wheel that will fit into the hollow of a 9/16 blade. If I do mount that size of wheel on that arbor I will most likely be knocking the tang into the arbor ( assuming I get the speed down some way). For me this is all about sanding/grinding to remove pitting. It is not about buffing.
Thanks for posting your pics! They will help some new guys for sure. :)

Hey Tim :)
Yes, in some cases I will be leaving the scales on but even with them taken off the length of the blade is ~6". Then add on my fat fingers and a little bit for slop and 8" is used up kinda fast. Especially if your using the wheel on the right side and trying to sand/buff the face of the blade. I could get around this if I used the same grit wheel on the left side of the shaft but then I have to duplicate wheels.

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Originally Posted by 32t

I see your points but 8" is a little extreme. Are you leaving the scales on? ;)

Tim

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 32t

I see your points but 8" is a little extreme. Are you leaving the scales on? ;)

Tim

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While Randy gave you a pretty good answer already, remember that some razors are custom and go beyond the usual 6", so I might even be tended to go with 9" ;)

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

While Randy gave you a pretty good answer already, remember that some razors are custom and go beyond the usual 6", so I might even be tended to go with 9" ;)

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Yes, the other option I have with this setup is to push the shaft more to the right if needed. Just like Spazola ( Charlie Lewis) has done with his. Check out his Youtube video to see it and notice how the right side is longer than the left side.

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

Hey Tim :)
Yes, in some cases I will be leaving the scales on but even with them taken off the length of the blade is ~6". Then add on my fat fingers and a little bit for slop and 8" is used up kinda fast. Especially if your using the wheel on the right side and trying to sand/buff the face of the blade. I could get around this if I used the same grit wheel on the left side of the shaft but then I have to duplicate wheels.

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Hey Randy etc.

My second post referring to leaving the scales on was meant as more of a joke. Sorry if it didn't come out that way.

Tim

No offense taken. :)

I have received some questions about how long the arbor should stick out. Ans. No more than 9"!

The longer a rod is the easier it is to bend with a force applied to the end.
The outside circumference of a spinning wheel develops a outward pull which increases with the speed of rotation. Any slight imbalance is multiplied as that imbalance is spun faster.

This is a low speed arbor, only a half inch in diameter and designed to give max clearance for clean-up on a razor .
It should be run at less than 1000 RPMs = 4" pulley on the arbor and a 2+pulley on the motor.
Buffs and wheels limited to 4" Maximum!!!
Safety margin...some, but not a great deal!
This should keep people out of trouble! It is for very light duty and made for sanding and cleanup!

~Richard
PS, If someone wants to do the calculations, the formula is:
Centripetal force = mass x velocity2 / radius

:confused:First; there are more parts to be made and the shaft and arbor with pulley are just wedged into place for the trial with the odd piece of wood. All parts will be thoroughly located and fastened when finished..

Finally I had a a bit of time to do some machining and make a first fitting of the project:
I recently bought a cheap used 8 inch to center of spindle, drill press with five speeds at a garage sale.~$45


1. The key part of this buffer is the round aluminum block with a centered pocket on top and a centered spud on the bottom, the size of the slot in the bottom board, to locate the bottom board on center.
2. On top of it, centered to all, in that pocket, the end shaft bearing is mounted to hold the half inch rod from drill chuck carrying the drive pulley
3. Under that aluminum round, also centered is a half inch threaded rod sticking out the bottom...with a bushing around it made to exactly fit the hole in the drill press table.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...rstfitup-4.jpg
I made a hand wheel from a surplus 5" caster, which I threaded, to lock all together when turned onto the threaded rod mentioned above.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...rstfitup-3.jpg
Taken together it comes out like this:
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...rstfitup-1.jpg

Simple, What? WHY??

Simple, What? WHY??
The whole go'round is to allow the sliding of the bottom board and tightening and loosening the drive belt. The long board slot is to make the drill press column a centering and stabilizing device.
If I loosen the drive belt and turn the arbor end for end, I can reverse rotation.
If I reverse rotation that way, I retain the buffs or whatever on the ends of the shaft without spinning them off.
And..I do not need a reversing motor.
Oh Yeah..I get 5 speeds from the drill press!
And;I guess that it will also raise the arbor about eight to ten inches above the table top.
Cheers
~Richard
PS, it is always a good idea to have a bearing on the end of a drill press shaft when turning the shaft with a side loading, like routing with a routing cutter or this with the belt on the pulley making a side load..

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Originally Posted by Geezer

If I loosen the drive belt and turn the arbor end for end, I can reverse rotation.
If I reverse rotation that way, I retain the buffs or whatever on the ends of the shaft without spinning them off.
And..I do not need a reversing motor.

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I like the way you are thinking but this part looses me. If you have one end of the shaft threaded left hand and the other right hand you would have no reason that I can see to have to reverse direction.

What am I missing.

Tim

Why do I want to reverse rotation occasionally? That is an excellent question!
I will probably belabor the answer but here goes.

I may wish to apply the blade to either the tops or bottoms of the buffs or sanding drums to get the sanding effect and control I want. Think spine forward or edge forward with the blade in the best position to quickly see what I am doing or to best control the blade. By being able to reverse direction, I am then able to do that.

Consider; I like to clean and finish the majority of the blade with the sanding drum/grinding wheel rotating toward the spine. In some cases I may be able to see resulting grit patterns/sheen more easily using the bottom of a drum than hidden below the blade at the top of a drum which causes me to constantly flip the blade over to check progress and back to process it..

Think also, that I may have this or a similar piece of equipment, in the future,positioned to allow me to be able to have the shaft of the arbor pointing toward me while working. I then may look along a blade and align it more easily with the shaft and surface of the sanding drum.
That is how many razors and knives were originally ground between two wheels, the ends of which faced toward the operator.

I am basically tactile in nature and would be, as you can tell from my posts, barely able to talk without using my hands.

In the past, when i have designed products, industrial machines, fixtures, and jigs, it has been with the movements of the operator in mind to develop the kinematics necessary to reduce fatigue and accidents.

Because i have not used this particular evolution of a buffing machine, but have been using others for the past 50+ years, I am not sure how, exactly, it will be used but have made it possible to try many variations on a theme. I may use only one end or any other possibility available to accomplish the task I wish. I do not only refurbish razors but other items also. On some projects, I have used the end of the buffer shaft toward me. It can be a safety device also to prevent eating a difficult part. Rather than fly into me or bounce toward me, it flies past and does not damage anything but the hand that didn't hold it properly.

That is why only the arbor will be sold, there are as many possibilities as there are folks who want to do their own work. See Damon and Randy's configurations earlier.
Thanks for considerately asking your question!
Sincerely
~Richard

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Originally Posted by Geezer

I am basically tactile in nature and would be, as you can tell from my posts, barely able to talk without using my hands.


~Richard

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Good job,
even minus the visual of hands!

Thanks

Tim

The other guys are doing theirs also; expect some photo posts soon from them too. They have come up with differing ideas for their own spaces and usage. They stay in touch and ask questions that get me thinking!!

For my first trial:
Not much for looks; it does the job and is reversible when required. It made usable "cheap" prototype and I learned a lot. I got a few better ideas for the next one/s.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...r/S5000005.jpg
Have fun!
~Richard

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Originally Posted by Geezer

. They stay in touch and ask questions that get me thinking!!


~Richard

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Why not lay the drill press on its side and forget about twisting belts etc,?


Tim