Devil's Spit Theory

I recently received a razor that was found at my Grandfather's house after he died. It was packed in a box with alot of old stuff. Everything in the box was dry and didn't have signs of being wet at any point. The razor had oil on it still, but in some spots the oil seemed thicker and under the oil after wiping it off there was devil's spit. I am wondering if the oil breaks down after so long and that is what causes devil's spit or if the waxed paper that was wrapped around the razor broke down and mixed in with the oil to make it thicker almost like a congealed grease and that is what caused it. The devil's spit only show in spots where the thicker oil was. Now if only I knew what type of oil was on the blade. This is just my rantings after seeing the razor and having always wondered what could cause it.

I can only offer conjecture, but it seems to me that the culprit could be moisture on the blade that was trapped in by the oil/grease/whatever.



I could be full of beans, but this is my theory. :D

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Originally Posted by unit

I can only offer conjecture, but it seems to me that the culprit could be moisture on the blade that was trapped in by the oil/grease/whatever.



I could be full of beans, but this is my theory. :D

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No beans, I've read more than once that experts suggest wiping your stored guns down at regular intervals. Stored with oil indefinitely the moisture can get under the oil and cause corrosion.

Oils - depending on their actual composition - will to a lesser or greater extent be hygroscopic. That is they absorb moisture over time - this is why old oil often appear emulsified. The water doesn't so much get under the oil as travel through it. There's a lot of different factors invovled so the time period this occurs over can vary hugely.

With these razors being packed away indoors it would have taken a relatively long time for the absorption to occur especially if you live in a dry climate. The staining you are seeing is most probably simply a result of the oil absorbing small quantities of water and causing some oxidisation. This tends to be fairly minimal as there would not have been much oxygen available under the oil film (what we engineers refer to as anaerobic conditions).

My experience has been that ANYTHING on a nicely polished blade attracts moisture more than the dry, highly polished steel does itself. Periodic inspecting and polishing is necessary. An easy experiment to try (although I don't recommend it) is to place a fingerprint on a highly polished blade, put it away in storage for a month or two and then get it out to look at it. The fingerprint will have either turned slightly brown, a sign of oxidation, or be actually rusted. Anything on a blade will attract water out of the ambient humidity and eventually create rust.

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Originally Posted by ace

My experience has been that ANYTHING on a nicely polished blade attracts moisture more than the dry, highly polished steel does itself. Periodic inspecting and polishing is necessary. An easy experiment to try (although I don't recommend it) is to place a fingerprint on a highly polished blade, put it away in storage for a month or two and then get it out to look at it. The fingerprint will have either turned slightly brown, a sign of oxidation, or be actually rusted. Anything on a blade will attract water out of the ambient humidity and eventually create rust.

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************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ***Sort of... Highly polished blades SHOW blemishes more readily, but offer less surface area for corrosion to work on and therefore polished surfaces offer a bit of corrosion resistance (in my findings from testing with knives). ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** **********************************By contrast, satin finishes (characterized by a bunch of micro scratches) offer a much higher effective surface area for corrosion to work on. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** **********************************OTOH, a finger print will generally get lost on a satin finish and seems less noticeable. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ********************************** No disrespect intended and sorry about the asterisks. All my line breaks are getting removed this morning...so hopefully this aids readability;)

Agreed on all counts, except for the fact that if a fingerprint gets "lost" on a satin finish, it may still be there doing its dirty work, attracting moisture and with it, ultimately, corrosion.

You guys hit the nail on the head here. Devils spit is a huge pain to deal with, most of my car restoring buddies have dealt with it. Not sure if there is a cleaner to remove it, I just know they had to take a die grinder to it; well sandpaper for our purposes. You could try a natural degreaser and let it sit for a while, just make sure it is safe for chrome, anything safe for chrome won't eat into it's surface layers just the gunk.

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Originally Posted by ace

Agreed on all counts, except for the fact that if a fingerprint gets "lost" on a satin finish, it may still be there doing its dirty work, attracting moisture and with it, ultimately, corrosion.

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Absolutely, and generally it will corrode FASTER on satin due to more available "nucleation" sites....but it will be visually "lost" until the damage starts. I should have been clearer, I suppose;)

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Originally Posted by tiddle

You guys hit the nail on the head here. Devils spit is a huge pain to deal with, most of my car restoring buddies have dealt with it. Not sure if there is a cleaner to remove it, I just know they had to take a die grinder to it; well sandpaper for our purposes. You could try a natural degreaser and let it sit for a while, just make sure it is safe for chrome, anything safe for chrome won't eat into it's surface layers just the gunk.

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Generally this sort of stain extends into the metal a ways and material removal is the only method I have found to remove it successfully.

Agreed, the degreaser was a suggestion, but in our case, we just decided to go ahead and to grind the crap out of some 302 heads that had been sitting in a barn for who knows how long b/c the motor had a seal leak and seized. Luckily the heads were salvageable with some elbow, and aluminum oxide grease :p

Agreed, the degreaser was just a suggestion. We just went to grinding on the parts. It came out eventually, with a little elbow and aluminum oxide grease :p

Crap...my internet is gettin' screwy again, sorry for the DP guys :mad:

Fingerprints fall into a slightly different category, I would think. The sebaceous and sweat gland secretions that are the cause of a fingerprint being left behind produce a mix of both alkalis (sweat) and acid (sebaceous oil) that are probably kept apart by the oil barrier, so they do not neutralise each other. Handling is a recognised cause of corrosion of tool steel industry. Some individuals can cause tool steel to corrode in a day by touching it - they suffer from hyperhidrosis or sweaty hands. Sebum in normal individuals usually contains up to 16% free fatty acid.

Regards,
Neil

Hi my name is Josh, and I have a hyperhydrosis problem :cry:

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Some individuals can cause tool steel to corrode in a day by touching it - they suffer from hyperhidrosis or sweaty hands. Sebum in normal individuals usually contains up to 16% free fatty acid.

Regards,
Neil

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Nowadays, with the advent of cheap Chinese pre-made and pre-sterilized tattooing needles, most tattooers no longer make their own needles but for years we bought packs of 1,000 and made our liners and shaders one at a time.

I always preferred high carbon steel tattooing needles and in handling them I never had a problem with those left in the wrapper rusting. I knew other guys who would touch the needles and they always would be rusty and ruined the next time they opened the wrapper. Some people do have a PH that is conducive to corrosion.

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Originally Posted by tiddle

Hi my name is Josh, and I have a hyperhydrosis problem :cry:

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Hi - my name is Neil and I have an alcoh... - er, sorry, wrong room!

AA is for quitters, don't be a quitter Neil...don't be a quitter! :nono:

Hyperhydrosis is a PITA, I had to switch from nickel strings to SS on my bass b/c within a week they would begin turning black, and dull the tone, and I was too lazy to just clean them :w

Great info guys. On a side note I actually have a razor that has a some fingerprints etched on it. Started off as a rusty fingerprint that left an etching after polishing the rust off. It doesn't look bad though. I've been wanting to mess around with my own fingerprints and forcing patina and see if it would create a design.

Hmmmmm...you might be onto something there skippy!

Take one razor Add Water, Soap, & Skin, let sit a few decades and the Devil might visit and spit on yer blade.. I have no proof, just a ton of experience removing it from razors, IMHO it is the combination of bad that makes the Devils Spit different from Red, Black and Spider Rust.. Just a pet theory

Could someone be so kind as to upload a picture of devils spit so us noobs know what you're talking about :)

Here is one that I recently got that has "Devil's Spit". It looks like a smooth stain till you remove it and the metal is pitted underneath. The other picture is one when the "Devil's Spit" was removed. It is alittle hard to tell in the picture, but it was really heavy near the toe/point.
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