Honing C-MON

I recently picked up a PJM C-MON and it was dull. I'm somewhat new to honing and seem to keep hitting a roadblock. I put the blade to the first hone, a 1k. I got what seemed to be a good bevel doing circles and a few x strokes with slurry. I rinsed the hone and continued with a few more x strokes and some straight down the hone. It's cutting hair, it's even taking down a few above the skin surface and cutting some standing hairs. I move on to the 4k, then the 8k. The edge is sharp, cutting standing hairs. I stop and go to a pasted strop. I move to test the next morning with a shave. It shaves. I get through the shave, not bad. BUT the shave was not as good or as close as I get from the ones I sent out. I'm finding that all the blades I hone end up just short of the level I want. My highest grade hone is only the Norton 8 k. To achieve that next level, do I need a 12k or do I need to keep going on the 8k? I'm close. I just need to push through to the next level of sharpness. Is this something that can only be solved with the next level of hones?

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Originally Posted by OCDshaver

I recently picked up a PJM C-MON and it was dull. I'm somewhat new to honing and seem to keep hitting a roadblock. I put the blade to the first hone, a 1k. I got what seemed to be a good bevel doing circles and a few x strokes with slurry. I rinsed the hone and continued with a few more x strokes and some straight down the hone. It's cutting hair, it's even taking down a few above the skin surface and cutting some standing hairs. I move on to the 4k, then the 8k. The edge is sharp, cutting standing hairs. I stop and go to a pasted strop. I move to test the next morning with a shave. It shaves. I get through the shave, not bad. BUT the shave was not as good or as close as I get from the ones I sent out. I'm finding that all the blades I hone end up just short of the level I want. My highest grade hone is only the Norton 8 k. To achieve that next level, do I need a 12k or do I need to keep going on the 8k? I'm close. I just need to push through to the next level of sharpness. Is this something that can only be solved with the next level of hones?

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How are the ones you send out finished?

Many will say you should get comfortable shaves off 8K, but comfort is relative....I feel like I get good shaves off the 8K, but I like the shaves I get off my 12K better...otherwise why would any of us do it?

I still have a lot to learn myself, but I would start with finding out what is done to the blades that give you the shaves you like;)

I'm going to sound like the blind leading the blind, but here I go.

I was in your position not long ago (a month). And some razors I finished on the 8k then on the 16 k shapton glass weren't as sharp. Some improve to an acceptable level after going back to the progression of 4, 8 and 16. After that I went to paste and it seem to improve more. Until I got a Zulu Grey, every razor, from the professionally home to the ones I have done from bevel improved 5 fold, to the point that I'm getting some of the smoothes shaves and closeness I ever experience to today.

Having said that, I'm not sure if it is the stone alone, or my technic has improved or a combination of both. I still use the marker, the loop, the thumb, hair test and what ever I read to evaluate the progress of the edge. I go slow and is painfull some times, but I realy think my feel for the edge is improving along with honing technic (even light pressure) that is coming together. What ever it is I also think that in order to know how much you are improving you need a finisher, the important thing is not to use it as a crotch for sub-par edges. I have stopped on the 8k and strop and shave twice, it is a good measure to know how much that finisher is going to improve that edge. I know some people do recommend to learn those stones first, until you get a good shave, but I say, you can be learning on both at the same time, as long as you take time to experiment. And that is my 2 cents! Double O

Without seeing it in person or knowing exactly what you are doing, I'd suggest the likely culprit would be the bevel setting - at the 1K stage. I know you say it cuts hairs at this stage, but it's how it cuts the hairs IME that matters. I'm probably of little use to you in this case because I tend to assess my 1K edges with the wet thumb nail test rather than arm hair, so I am not as up on how it should feel as others may be. Hopefully they will see this and post.

Having said that, a lot of the pro honers have higher grit for finishers than 8K. So perhaps what you are feeling is a less-smooth edge rather than a less sharp edge.

What is the paste you are using on the strop? CrOx?

James.

Dan, your 8k edges for sure will not feel like something finished on a very fine Jnat for example.
On another hand is the bevel truly set?

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Originally Posted by mainaman

Dan, your 8k edges for sure will not feel like something finished on a very fine Jnat for example.
On another hand is the bevel truly set?

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Is that what was used to finish them? What level of grit would that be? I believe that the bevel is set. As stated, it shaves. But it's not as sharp as the ones you have worked on.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

What is the paste you are using on the strop? CrOx?

James.

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.5 diamond spray.

Even with only finishing on a 8k you will be surprised at how your edge will improve the more experience you get from the more you hone. The more you hone the more you are able to figure out the little tweaks each razor will take to improve the edge, even from an 8k stone. In saying this I must warn you that the more experience you want means the more razors you will need. IT NEVER ENDS. Whenever I think I have enough razors I see one that I want or one will take a fantastic edge so I HAVE to keep it, but I guess it keeps me busy at times. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by OCDshaver

Is that what was used to finish them? What level of grit would that be? I believe that the bevel is set. As stated, it shaves. But it's not as sharp as the ones you have worked on.

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natural stones do not have grit ratings.

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Originally Posted by JSmith1983

Even with only finishing on a 8k you will be surprised at how your edge will improve the more experience you get from the more you hone. The more you hone the more you are able to figure out the little tweaks each razor will take to improve the edge, even from an 8k stone. In saying this I must warn you that the more experience you want means the more razors you will need. IT NEVER ENDS. Whenever I think I have enough razors I see one that I want or one will take a fantastic edge so I HAVE to keep it, but I guess it keeps me busy at times. Good luck.

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I haven't been doing this very long but I've already landed that. LOL. But for the purposes of practicing, I've been good about buying some rough stuff from eBay. The C-MON was one of them....not because it's not a good blade but it came in at a very reasonable price.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

natural stones do not have grit ratings.

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Here is what I will try. I will go back to the 1kfor 20 passes then move up through the others. I may be moving in reverse but the experience won't hurt. If it still stalls where the others seem to have, I'll send it off to you for evaluation/honing/re-pinning.

20 passes may or may not do it. It depends on how much more your razor needs, if the bevel is even the issue. Try this since you seem to be using hair shaving for a test: do another round of circles(maybe 40)/half-strokes(maybe 20) followed by a few x-strokes (10ish) to even it out, test shave a small patch of arm/leg hair.

What you're looking for is a good clean hair removal. Depending on how coarse your hair is, it may/may not pull a bit. You'll have to find out how a good bevel reacts for you. (This is the hard part: personalizing the tests). Do not move on until you get to this point or until the razor stops improving. If you have a scope, now is the time to use it--you're looking for the scratches of your 1k to go all the way to the edge, nice & clean all the way to the end.

Try the same thing off whatever you do on the 4k: here you're looking for hair to fall off in a clump. There should be no pulling @ all--the edge is really almost there off the 4k anyway. Again, do not move ahead until you get to this point, or until the razor stops improving. If that works, then go to the 8k--try 15 strokes & strop. Let us know what happens then.

Strop it till the cows come home, or move this thread to honing! ;)

Here read and watch

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html


If you can't figure out how to get the most out of your Nortons after trying those techniques and ideas in that thread, then the Norton Police are coming to arrest you :p


edit: Moved to Honing :)

OK, I went after it again today on the hones. I started off on the 1k doing circles. I feel fairly confident that the bevel was already set. But to be 100% sure, I went all the way back to the lowest grit stone. I passed all the tests, TNT, TPT, and shaved at skin level......maybe even a little above. I did 20 circles and 10 X's on slurry. Then I repeated it. I then did some light passes on just water as if to polish the edge on the 1k until it didn't sem to be making any improvement. I then went to the 4k doing 20 circles with very, very light pressure. 20 X's and a few straight down the hone. Then again with the lightest pressure attempted to polish the edge with fresh water until it seemed to be doing no more good. Again, it shaves hair and is catching some standing hairs. I move on to the 8k. Lots of water, I do about 20 Xs and five straight down the hone. I repeat this a couple times. Again, it seems as though I've gotten all Icahn get from the last stone. I giv eit a final 5 passes on diamond spray and strop. Tomorrow I test it with a shave. Looking at it under the scope, it LOOKS like the other edges but maybe slightly less polished. The metal seems to have a little more grain to it than the other edges. The bevel looks clean and even down the blade. I feel confident that it will shave but we'll see if it's any better.

Success! I don't know exactly what I did differently but I nailed it. Extremely close shave today. Nice and comfortable. I suppose if there is a lesson to be taken away from this, its watching more closely at each level to ensure that the most has been taken away from it before moving on. I kept reading about over honing and knowing when to stop. I think I was stopping too soon having heard those warnings. Nice shave, good sharp edge.

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Originally Posted by OCDshaver

Success! I don't know exactly what I did differently but I nailed it. Extremely close shave today. Nice and comfortable. I suppose if there is a lesson to be taken away from this, its watching more closely at each level to ensure that the most has been taken away from it before moving on. I kept reading about over honing and knowing when to stop. I think I was stopping too soon having heard those warnings. Nice shave, good sharp edge.

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Good job! Congrats! Double O