Greaseless Compound Grit Question

I guess this is a dumb question, but since I have never worked with greaseless compounds I have no clue. I was wondering are the grits the same as sandpaper grits? I am also assuming that when using a buffer the scratches would be rougher from the force of the wheel. Maybe even deeper from the strands of cloth or whatever fabric that might be loose. If anyone that uses buffers could chime in it would be great. I eventually plan on getting a buffer sometime in the far far future, but would like to start getting to know what I am expecting.

Personally I stay well clear of the compounds. I've seen more razors ground to hell & back with that stuff, & would rather take the time and sand by hand then grind the daylights out of my blades. That stuff works to fast for me. I'd be terrified to go courser then 600 grit. But thats just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by JSmith1983

I guess this is a dumb question, but since I have never worked with greaseless compounds I have no clue. I was wondering are the grits the same as sandpaper grits? I am also assuming that when using a buffer the scratches would be rougher from the force of the wheel. Maybe even deeper from the strands of cloth or whatever fabric that might be loose. If anyone that uses buffers could chime in it would be great. I eventually plan on getting a buffer sometime in the far far future, but would like to start getting to know what I am expecting.

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With good technique there will be few issues.

I completely agree. I have seen far to many razors buffed way to far, but I have seen some that were done right and looked really well. What I really don't like about it is that it seems to make the metal look "soft" to me. By that I mean it seems to soften corners and straight lines, but like I said that is usually when someone buffs to far. That is why I was wondering if the grits are the same and if the scratches actually turn out the same.

They will if you use a lite touch, by lite I mean just enough to make contact with the wheel. This way takes longer, but compared to grinding down the steel too far by pushing into the wheel, it's a no brainer. I personally use concentric sewn muslin wheels, they have some give to get into places the standard muslins need "pressure to assist with, and are softer, so to me they tend to try and "tear" into or dig into the steel less. I go 80 (if there is a lot of deep pitting or start w/ 120 or 150 if it's lite), 150, 240, 400, 600. Then I use a yellow treated sisal wheel w/ emory and another w/ a blending compoud that takes all the scratches out leaving a semi dull shine. Next I go to standard muslin w/ a white diamond buffing compound (it's called white rouge a lot, but rouge means red...so it's a buffing compound). After that I go to a chromeox polishing compound on a loose muslin wheel, then if I want a deep luster red rouge on loose muslin; if I want straight bling, pink scratchless (Jantz Supply for all your Knife Making needs) on loose muslin. The white diamond bar and pink scratchless from the website above work great on scales as well. Also, after sanding to 1k on g10, brown tripoli on a standard muslin will get out sanding marks, then white diamond, pink scratchless, and BAM those things will shine so purdy! As I said Jantz Supply for all your Knife Making needs is where I get my wheels and buffing and polishing stuff, they are the cheapest I have found for wheels, arbor adapters, and all of that stuff. Hope that helps. OH I almost forgot! Always use greaseless w/ the edge pointed down when working on the blade, and always horizontal, you can switch to different angles when you hit the emory. You need a wheel rake, and scuff the wheels up a bit, load your compound on the slowest speed possible, just barely touch it to the wheel until the wax matrics builds up some heat and starts to grab, that's when the compound will load best. Just jamming it up to the wheel like buffing compounds will just grab it out of your hand, and make a godawful mess...and yep I learned that one the hard way :gaah:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...lustrated.html

There ya go

What I was asking is are the grits from compounds the same as sandpaper and are the scratches the same? Like is 600 grit compound the same as 600 grit sandpaper. Does buffing create deeper and rougher scratches than hand sanding?

I get similar results from both, one is just quicker, and the buffers are easier to produce a more uniform like scratch pattern for me. YMMV

Yes

No

Depends on the wheels the compounds are used on..


I am not being evasive, like most everything else in this hobby the outcome varies ie: YMMV if this was Rocket Science it would be easy :p

As noted in the above statements some Buffed razors look wrong, others look right, the only difference is the hands behind the razors :D

Thank you. That is what I was wanting to know. I figured it would be different with different materials since something soft would want to bend and something hard would want to push through something.

There you have it - it depends on the substrate you use to load the compounds onto.

Sisals are not all equal - some are very, very hard, some are soft. The grit of the compound is nearer the stated grit number on the harder sisals - on softet sisals it sinks in a bit and the grinding effect is less.

You can get hard wool felt wheels - these are in three degrees of hardness, and the hardest one is nearly as hard as the hardest sisal - but, unlike very hard sisal, it adds nothing of its own. A very hard sisal will leave lines.

Stitched wheels are pretty soft, so if you put a blade on a 72 x 2 inch sanding belt of 600 grit, then take it to a stitched wheel with 600 grit compound, it will soften the marks left by the belt.

Thats not the whole story though. If you go to grease lapping compounds of the same grit, the effect is much less. What you see on the metal is much more the effect of the wheel.

Or you can go the other way - using redhead cement you cover the wheel with the cement, then run it through lapidary grit. These wheels are really abrasive - almost like ordinary sold grinding wheels. You also have to let the cement dry, then hit it all over with a hammer to break it into small bits, otherwise the effect will be exactly the same as using a solid grinding wheel.

In the old days, when people were apprenticed to learn this sort of work, they were tested by the instructors. Any evidence of 'smear' - those drag lines that occur with lettering and which soften edges and make everything look 'soft' was heavily penalised. They were taught, especially where metal had been stamped with a mark or logo, to keep turning the workpiece to avoid the draglines. A soft wheel is a prime culprit in producing draglines - it gets into the cavities. To keep things sharp, a harder wheel was used.

The very soft wheels are used in final polishing only - they distort and bend over everything, but the abrasive effect with finishing compounds is so slight that draglines are not a problem. However, if the work is not pristine, then it is best not to use these soft wheels and finishing compounds - all they do is enhance the marks left by previous grits.

Regards,
Neil