General advice? First hone: Newbie to razors, but experiance with edge tool restores.

Hello razor restorers,

I'm new to straight shaving and enjoying the experiance. As I knew would happen, my interest in the razors themselves is blooming. I'm using a restored 4/8, hollow ground, round nose Swedish razor and it's working well. I think I would have been happier starting with a wider blade and one with a little more heft. I just found a nice Wostenholm 5/8 near wedge in a thrift shop and am getting ready to try my first honing job.

I've read some tutorials and have confirmed through the WIKI that people have had success with the "scary sharp" system using PSA backed abrasive sheets on backing plates. I'm familiar with this system having used it extensively during restoration of vintage woodworking edge tools including chisels and Brittish infill planes. I use the abrasive sheets on a granite plate which is large enough to apply one 3" wide strip on each side of the plate which is pretty handy. It's a very stable platform and also a nice height to work with. I know a plane blade is very different from a razor. I'm looking forward to honing a tool that comes with a built in angle guide, (the spine), as setting and maintaining proper angles on other edge tools is probably the most difficult aspect of the sharpening process. I am not planning on setting a secondary micro bevel, which I would commonly do on a plane or chisel.

I have abrasive sheets from 40 microns down to .3 microns. I believe that I will be mostly using grits in the range of 15, 5, and 1. I think that these numbers translate roughly to 1,000, 3,000 and 15,000, (but don't quote me). I know that I have to guard against being heavy handed and that I should take things slowly with a razor. I would welcome advice from anyone who can help me make the transition from sharpening heavier edge tools to the more fine and delicate nature of a straight razor.

Regards,
Bruce

This would be a good read for you, I think!
http://straightrazorpalace.com/showt...750#post331750

I've never tried the film myself. If it is a fast cutter, or even if it is not, throw 1 layer of electrical tape over the spine to avoid too much wear while you are becoming familiar with honing razors. As you noted, it is a different kettle of fish than chisels or plane blades. If the tape looks like it is wearing from grit to grit replacing it with a new piece isn't a bad idea. Let us know how you make out. :gl:

Double0757

That's a great thread. Thanks for directing me to it. I was very pleased to find that one aspect of my previous sharpening experiance can be applied to razor honing. This is that you can take your cue to move to a finer grit simply by noting when the previous scratch pattern is replaced by the new one. This seems less complicated than some of the counting methods I've read about.

Regards,
Bruce

JimmyHAD,

I'll take your advice on the tape. Has anyone ever tried the low friction tapes that are sold to line saw guide jigs and outfeed supports? I think I've got some of that stored away somewhere. It may not be an improvement. I was just wondering because it's pretty slippery.

Thanks,
Bruce

I've had the same thought. As long as the tape isn't any thicker than electric tape. I am familiar with the product but don't have any, try and report back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oldgearfan

JimmyHAD,

I'll take your advice on the tape. Has anyone ever tried the low friction tapes that are sold to line saw guide jigs and outfeed supports? I think I've got some of that stored away somewhere. It may not be an improvement. I was just wondering because it's pretty slippery.

Thanks,
Bruce

---

Tape saves the spine from hone wear but then you have to tape the razor to touch it up. I don't use tape for that reason. YMMV.

Yes, I understand that the same thickness of tape would have to be used for future honings. I was also wondering if there would be issues when stropping without the tape. I found in a post an opinion that because of the give in a strop it would probably not be an issue to strop a razor that had been taped for honing. The spine on this razor does have fairly substanial honing wear so it might make sense to protect it. The slippery tape I'm thinking of trying is thinner than electrical tape. It's also very tough. I've been impressed with how well it holds up to hundreds of feet of lumber being dragged across it, but of course that's not the same as mounting it on steel and dragging it over an abrasive. We'll see.

This is all new to me. I'll probably experiment a little here and there. If I find out anything that might be useful I'll chime back in. I can't mess around with any of this stuff for a few more days. I'm stuck on a tug boat and won't be home untill Sunday. And I have a new (old) razor sitting in my mail box. It's killing me!

With a hanging strop tapping the spine is not an issue. On some paddle strops it could be. When I hone a razor that has a lot of damage to the edge I set the bevel with one layer of tape then I remove the tape and finish with a few more passes on the 1k, then on up the progression. The additional wear after 1k is negligible.

Jonathan

It sounds like you will do just fine with the scary sharp method. What I look for when honing a razor is that the scratch pattern is uniform from heel to toe, the scratches extend from the top of the bevel to the very edge and that the color of the light reflection is the same for the full width of the bevel.
If their are 2 colors then you have 2 different angles on the bevel. You know this from creating micro bevels on your other tools.
What concerns me is that you will be working on a razor with significant hone wear. This may cause a problem. The problem will be that the angle is to narrow thus creating a bevel with a very thin cross section . That can result in a edge that either bends to easily or that will curl or develop a gross burr. One of the guidelines we have here is that the width of the blade divided by the thickness of the spine should not be greater than 4. A layer or two of tape on the spine can help with this. Try not to buy razors with a lot of hone wear for that reason.

I think you will do just fine :tu

That is excellent information, explained very well. Thank you. I'm somewhat challenged looking up information in both the forum and the WIKI because of very slow internet speeds. You answered several issues I've been wondering about. I have not worked with bevel angles much below 25 degrees and am concerned about the potential for creating thin cross sections. The four to one guideline is a gem. The razor I will be working on is 5/8ths wide and the spine is 3/16ths thick. Applying your formula results in 3.3, so it seems like I should be fine using the spine as an angle guide.
If the spine had been worn down to 1/8th thick that would result in a 5, and potentially too thin cross sections, correct? Do you guys have a chart that converts these ratios to bevel angles? That would be pretty interesting.

Regards,
Bruce

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oldgearfan

The razor I will be working on is 5/8ths wide and the spine is 3/16ths thick. Applying your formula results in 3.3, so it seems like I should be fine using the spine as an angle guide.

Correct
If the spine had been worn down to 1/8th thick that would result in a 5, and potentially too thin cross sections, correct?

Yes


Do you guys have a chart that converts these ratios to bevel angles? That would be pretty interesting.

Nope, I have not seen one.

Regards,
Bruce

---

Pressure control while honing is the other variable. Try to keep more pressure on the edge than on the spine. I use a 60/40 analogy. Use some "torque" on the tang to accomplish this. And go slow, otherwise you lose control of what part of the edge is making contact with the hone.
Watch the water flow ( in front of the edge) from heel to toe.

Now back to my morning coffee :)

I looked into the spine/blade ratio guideline question and with some help from a handy kid's math site was able to generate bevel angles starting with the two known measurements of a given razor, (spine thickness and blade width).

My razor with a 3/16" thick spine and a 5/8" wide blade, (at 3.3 on the guideline) comes out at an 18 degree bevel.

The imaginary razor I offered as an example with a 1/8" thick spine and a 5/8" wide blade, (at 5 on the guideline) comes out to a 12 degree bevel. Very thin! I can see how useful the guideline is.

I ran another set of numbers for a blade that had a 3/16" thick spine and a 3/4" wide razor. That was a 4 on the guideline, and measured at a 16 degree bevel.

I'm sure that guys play with these numbers all the time. I'll do some looking in the WIKI. It seems to me that a simple table with the more common ratios and their attendant bevel angles would be useful at times.

More likely, when I get ashore I'll forget about the math and just start playing with real steel!

Bruce

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...-theories.html

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...zor-angle.html


The formulas in those threads can be used with Google, just plug in your numbers and copy and paste to the Google search bar and Voila' math happens

You will also find from those threads that the target Bevel angle seems to be by quite a large margin 16


PS: Consider yourself invited, try and make it out next weekend

http://straightrazorpalace.com/get-t...et-yakima.html

Thanks Glen,

I'll look up those threads. I appreciate it!

The Yakima meet sounds great. If I can tie it in with some other activities that an 11 year old girl wouod enjoy I might swing it!

Regards,
Bruce

Hey guys,

I got home today and dove into my first razor honing project. I couldn't find tape so I didn't use any. I was working on a Slater/Sheffield, 1/2 hollow, round point razor that I bought on Ebay. It was much nicer than I was hoping for. It was quite clean but had a couple fairly deep half circle dings in the edge. I breadboarded it on a diamond plate, then started with a 40 micron abrasive sheet on a granite plate. I tried to put more weight on the edge than the spine and think I did OK. When I was happy with the bevel I moved on to a15 micron sheet. I stayed with that abrasive for quite a while. I should have been a little more particular with the heavier abrasive but it all worked out. Continued through 5 microns and 1 micron.
The razor turned out fantastic! I know I've got plenty to learn but it was very encouraging. I'm going to post something in the begginners forum because it's really changed my view on straight razor shaving.

For me the care and sharpening of my razors is a big part of why I choose this method of shaving. I tend to be good with my hands and also started with a lot of other sharpening experience. I do also recognize that some people start shaving will less shall we say outside skills and abilities. Like my son for example. He should and probably will take his time getting all the way in. I'm glad you managed to slip in fairly easily, not everyone does. Congradulations

Congrats! :)

As you know from your prior experience it is easier to do a little at a time. Once steel is removed it is impossible to put it back.

BTW, check out Gssixgun info regarding a better alternative to breadknifing a razor.
I don't have the link, maybe somebody does?

RezDod,

Thanks. I'm with you. The restoration and maintenence of a fine edge tool is a big part of the draw. I'm not doing as much wood working these days and have been missing the satisfaction of seeing what a fine tool is capable of. The fact that I'm actually looking forward to shaving is the biggest surprise for me! I was just hoping gto make it less of a chore.

Regards,
Bruce

randydance062449,

I will look into the breadknifing issue. The diamond plate was not a nice way to go. It was one of those plates with all the holes in it and it felt pretty abusive as I was using it. That's probably why I stopped short of getting the job done, (and left a small knick behind).

Thanks,
Bruce