Blade with a "turned up" toe: Advice.

For the consideration of the panel:

Attachment 131952

This was an e-bay special (Shumate Razor, St. Louis, Mo); I won it for dirt cheap on a bid that I, frankly, didn't expect to win. I lost bids for more money on razors that appeared to need more work, but that topic is far afield. At any rate, first thing first, those are not deep pits on the edge. There is corrosion, but it's not as deep as the picture makes it look. I've already cleaned this blade up (sorry, no pics because the blade and I are currently separated by 7 time zones) and, as far as I can tell, there's nothing wildly wrong with the blade (the metal at least) except for......yep......you got it. What the deuce is up with the toe?! So my questions are these:

1. Academic: What caused this? I've seen a blade with a honed out toe, but that's usually more of a gentle slope from heel to toe. I would suspect improper honing, but, to my amateur eyes, the hone wear on the toe does not seem to match the severity of the defect. Could there have been a chip that a previous owner agressively blended out?
2. Practical: Can/Should I leave this like it is? Will it affect the honing process? the shave?......Suggestions? I hesitate to write off good steel, but I'm stymied as to how to proceed.

Thanks!
Jim

My guess would be a chip or crack honed out. It may get in the nooks and crannies and I can't think of anything to do other than leaving it. The toe will be an added pain to hone but what are the options. Round the toe and move the bevel up an 8 ?

Just my 2 cents (with inflation that would be about .5 cents)

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

My guess would be a chip or crack honed out. It may get in the nooks and crannies and I can't think of anything to do other than leaving it. The toe will be an added pain to hone but what are the options. Round the toe and move the bevel up an 8 ?

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+1 to being a pain to hone.. X strokes my man!
Or you could "bread knife" it down an 1/8 to make it flat again.

One of the big problems for me is to imitate the strokes of the previous owner/honer. Try the marker test with a fine hone to prevent unnecessary wear and see if you can copy it. Rather than "bread knife" it i would cut 1/2 or whatever is needed from the end. Although I think that either choice is extreme. The worst that will happen is that you will have an extremely muted tip!

My opposition to bread-knifing is the fact that I don't have the tools to confidently produce a flat edge...my edge would probably end up looking worse than the current one :p. And I don't have the tools to recover a bread-knifed edge (sure, I could send it out, but shipping would cost more than the blade did, hehe) Additionally, if you draw a line across from the tip of the toe-edge, the bread-knifing would go up to the shoulder....aesthetically, not my first option.

Your responses thus far to honing have been exactly what I feared. It looks like if I keep it like this, there's going to be more youtube watching on honing techniques! Here's the idea that's been bouncing around in my head, and the reason I'm seeking opinions from far more experienced individuals than I. (w00t photoshop!)

Attachment 131953

Obviously, the material removed is still extreme, but, in theory, is something I can do VERY CAREFULLY with a rotary tool, files, and a glass of ice water. However, would such a mod be TOO extreme? I'm kinda trying to do a cost-benefit analysis in my head between just dealing with the honing problems or re-shaping a blade and I need data points.

Not a bad idea. But now your scales are going to be to long....:hmmm: Now you just have to find one with a broke in the wedge pin area cheap that you can shorten to match this one. Swap scales and away you go! Where does this stop???? Just having fun. your thoughts are reasonable. Its your blade. Go for it!

To me this too looks like there had been a chip or so. There is not too much honewear.

I would leave it as it is. If You reduce it to flat, You'll loose a lot of metal and get into an area where the blade gets thicker.
You can cut off the toe, but this way You will also loose a lot of material and the scales will be too long and this option is still available, when You try to rehone the way it is.

I'm not a honing expert, but lately worked on an old Ben Hur that has a good smile on the toe. I did rolling x-Strokes and a bit of wiping at the end of the stroke and it turned out quite well.

Just do a few very slow very light stokes on a finishing stone and follow the blade in order to find the movement necessary for the actual stroke

Hone it up and shave with it as is.
After reseting a new bevel you will lose a bit of the problem and the remaiming upswept tip can be honed by very carefully lifting the heel of the blade enough so that contact will be made with the upswept toe at both the cutting edge and the spine.
When you do this Use very very light pressure, just enough to touch the hone. Maintain the contact while lifting the scales and moving forward in usual manner.
A lot of the older razors from the 1800s had an upswept toe and apparently some may even have been honed like that on purpose.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy51

A lot of the older razors from the 1800s had an upswept toe and apparently some may even have been honed like that on purpose.

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I was thinking this and wondered what I was missing that everyone else wanted to fix.

You have a nice start at at smiling razor. I would not hesitate to enjoy that as is (after honing it with some rolling x strokes).

Nothing ventured, nothing gained...and it sounds like you ventured very little to embark on something new to you (that you may truly enjoy more than you previously thought)

Take a watch at this, really watch at 4:00min there's where you will see what may have caused your toe to look like it does!!:shrug:

gssixgun Barber Hone.wmv - YouTube

I note the repetition of "rolling X-strokes" in the replies.

That would be my bias -- leave the shape of the edge as it is, and get it sharp, and shave with it. _Lots_ of old razors look like yours. They shave fine.

. Charles

I think the toe was damaged & ground back. I doubt there is a bevel set there or the spine would reflect the wear.

Shumates which have a smile usually have a curved spine. Still, as Oz sez, little hone wear on the spine tells a a lot. I would hone that joker with a rocking stroke, start out on supthin aggressive to set a bevel and go from there. And just see what the old gent who owned it liked about it. You might just be suprised! ;)