When dealing with big old wedges...

Do you find that there is much more of the lower grit honing required? I'm not sure that is the case with mine, but I have taken it through a pretty thorough progression starting at 1000, 1500, 2000, 4000, 8000, 16,000. These are honing films, not stones. I then used 1mc diamond paste and .5mc chro on a balsa strop. The toe and heel pass HHT, but the middle does not. It also is not shaving well at all.

Should I start over with this? I get the feeling that the bevel was not set right. That's the only reason I can think of why it would not be cutting along it's entire length.

Ideas?

Sounds like a bevel issue and that you may have a dip in your film. That is to say that somewhere along the progression the middle is not getting love.

What does the bevel look like under magnification ? Did you use the TNT as you worked on the bevel ? I don't move up in grit until it passes that TNT and then after I look at it under the 30x if it looks right I move on in grit.

No more TNT from there I rely on the TPT. Pyramid most likely but not necessarily. Depends on which hones I'm working with. One way or the other I always do the two tests and rely on the microscope or loupe before I move on. Just what I do, not necessarily the only way but it works for me.

I'm guessing the bevels aren't meeting all along the edge yet.

An old wedge might need a lot more honing if the bevels aren't there yet.

Some like to put one or more layers of tape on the old full wedges to get a faster bevel and save the spine some wear. You can take some or all of the tape off once the bevels are close, or not. I sometimes use 325 diamond on the really thick wedges.

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Originally Posted by Sticky

An old wedge might need a lot more honing if the bevels aren't there yet..

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A LOT more !!!!
Huge +1

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Originally Posted by FastEdge

Do you find that there is much more of the lower grit honing required?

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Almost always. Try going back to 1k and working on the bevel more.

I have found the larger less-ground wedges take way more time than the average full hollow razor of similar dull condition. Using hones to take out chips in those big old blades is the pits

Personally I still use 1 layer of tape on the spine. I know more will make it go faster but I would rather put more time in. YMMV. :)

Yes, I use one layer of tape when honing. I think I will take it all the way down and make sure that the bevel is set.

Thanks everyone.

Ed - I usually use 2 (sometimes 3) layers of tape for wedges, but then again I start on a really aggressive hone like the 220 norton and/or 325 diamond plate. I dont replace the tape because it's reason for being there for me is to save excessive wear on the spine, not to make the job go faster - by the time I get to 6000 it's worn right through and any future touch-ups will then not require re-taping, which is nice.

Regards,
Neil

BTW, the marker test is a good idea too. I assume you marked the edge to make sure the stroke you are using is bringing the bevel in contact with the hone ?

I keep an eye on my one layer of tape and replace it if it is necessary but I don't go to that coarse a hone unless I've got bad chips to remove. Different strokes. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Ed - I usually use 2 (sometimes 3) layers of tape for wedges, but then again I start on a really aggressive hone like the 220 norton and/or 325 diamond plate. I dont replace the tape because it's reason for being there for me is to save excessive wear on the spine, not to make the job go faster - by the time I get to 6000 it's worn right through and any future touch-ups will then not require re-taping, which is nice.

Regards,
Neil

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So it is yer intention to create a convex bevel during honing????
I know certain schools of thought go with this idea but I had never heard of anyone doing it intentionally using stones... Most of those schools of thought start with the straight bevel set, then go to just pastes, to do that.... I know Bruno posted some thoughts on this awhile back from one of the German Straight Shaving forums.....

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Ed - I usually use 2 (sometimes 3) layers of tape for wedges, but then again I start on a really aggressive hone like the 220 norton and/or 325 diamond plate. I dont replace the tape because it's reason for being there for me is to save excessive wear on the spine, not to make the job go faster - by the time I get to 6000 it's worn right through and any future touch-ups will then not require re-taping, which is nice.

Regards,
Neil

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Have you ever looked at these edges under a scope? I think things may not be progressing as you think they are.


Having tape puts the pressure on the very edge. Taking the tape off takes that pressure off. I think your higher grit hones are not doing much to the very cutting edge.

You can do the opposite--start with no tape, and then go to one layer for higher grit and get effective edge honing. But to start witha layer, and end with none I don't think will be effective.

It works for me. No convex bevel, either. Just to make one thing perfectly clear - I haven't come across a true, flat-sided wedge yet - the type of blade I am talking about is so very nearly a wedge, but has a very slight concavity, so apologies if I have posted misleading stuff. But just in case all your crystal balls were working and you knew what I was harping on about, here's the rejoinder...

The reason I do it is to minimise wear on the spine and to even-out any uneven bits/warps/bulges whatever along the spine. The bulges come through first, obviously, and get worn down. I check the bevel with marker (and also a USB scope, so I know things are progressing exactly as I think they are!) and continue to hone until passing the TNT on each coarse hone. By the time I reach 1000 grit there isn't much tape left, and I continue to hone to TNT one more time. The time it takes isn't the issue for me - the score marks from rough grits along the spine are. By 6000 grit if any tape is remaining it is covering low areas and not elevating the angle of the blade which to all intents is now flat on the stone.

Others have remarked about the effectiveness of tape spreading the load along the spine (I can recall Bart pointing this out, among others) - most of the wedges I hone are smiling and have really messed-up bevels and chipping along the cutting edge, so yes - the lower grits most certainly are doing something, and if the bevel is honed to flatness by the time 1000 is reached, then yes the higher grits are doing something.

As a point of interest, why would I want to scratch-up the spine on lower grits and then tape it on higher grits - my object is to make the blade look like less of a dogs dinner, not more like one! :) I want that spine to shine like a mirror, not be as dull as brushed aluminium!

And to avoid any confusion, I don't manually take the tape off, so the pressure at the edge isn't an issue - I let the tape wear off. Once worn through both the spine and the edge are in contact with the hone - I've done it enough times to know it works and it seems pretty obvious to me what is going on.

No more TNT after 1000 - just inspection under a high-power illuminated loupe and arm-hair cutting. Then finally stropping (I've even stopped using CrOx) until HHT is achieved. If it doesnt pass HHT back under the scope to see what's going on.

I haven't had a failure yet, and I both hone for other people and for razor sales and for myself. The last wedge I honed got the remark from the happy owner that it was the silkiest, closest shave he'd ever had.

Not effective? I beg to differ.

Regards,
Neil