Suggestions for honing razors prone to microchipping?

[gratewhitehuntr]

I've had enough now that I need a solution.

So far my solution has been 200 circles on the escher with slurry.

I need some better ideas.

mostly this seems to be a stainless problem, but I just had it with a Japanese razor.
Not as bad, but it was happening.

I'm sure the first question will be my honing progression so I'll throw that in
DMT 600,
DMT 1200
Shapton 4K
8x2 Swaty (cuts a lot faster when it's long)
escher

I seemed to run into trouble with the Swaty, but I know it's a good stone
I don't think it was the stone, rather the steel
it wasn't overhoned, but wanted to chip like crazy

so what is the deal with microchipping?

[kevint]

first guess is diamond on really hard / possibly-probably untempered martensite. what is the condition?

New- it could take a little abrasion to remove an overly brittle edge metal from heat treating to get to the properly brittle stuff. Old-could be corrosion issue, (even if unseen) solution is the same.

Most of the old time smith worked by eye so they could screw up on an unfortunate day.

Stainless i have no idea or use for it

[gssixgun]

One problem I see are the two DMT's
The other suspect is the Swaty, I am assuming this is just the extra-long Barbers hone????

Two razors that come to mind when you say chippy, The overly large Friodur and some of the Wacker's

I would never even consider using a DMT on either of these you just don't need that kind of cutting power...

One of the simplest things to do with chippy razors is to get to the higher grits faster... Every razor has a honing combo, the really good ones are pretty even, some like the lower and middle grits to get sharp and chippy ones tend to like the higher grits more...probably why you are getting there doing all the Escher work...

IIWY I would be looking at an 8k stone...

[Kees]

Hard brittle metals need soft hones. I think slurry causes microchipping when used with brittle steel. See it this way: every little slurry particle that slips underneath the edge exerts an additional force upwards on the cutting edge. If the metal is brittle that little particle can be enough to create a little microchip.

[Joed]

For my SS blades I go from the 4k Norton straight to the Escher and get excellent results. With my many years experience in metal working as a Tool and Die Maker and metallurgy I have found that when working a fine edge metal rubbing on metal causes chipping. Usual cause is the wheel, stone or lap is too hard and loaded with the metal that was removed. Stainless steel is a gummy material and loads hones quickly. Your Swatty is a very hard stone. Even my 8k Norton detracts from the edge on my SS blades.

Keep your hones clear of metal removed, mostly the Norton 4k and go straight to the Escher w/o slurry after the 4k.

The DMT will not breakdown when it gets loaded w/ metal so I would avoid that one also. I have a soft 1200 Japanese hone I use on SS when needed.

A loaded hone will also cause chipping on carbon blades.

With SS blades, less strokes possible is best.

Get the blade to cut hairs on the lowest grit hone you ues. All other hones are just polishing the bevel and refining the edge.

Good luck.

[0livia]

And a different stroke maybe.
Jimmy wrote a review about the video fom Howard Schechter and Harrelson Stanley performing an almost horizontal stroke and one of the effects of that stroke is helping to avoid microchipping.

I've had two razors last week that chipped and the fine hones alone did not do the trick. When I was almost done, I had a new chip in the edge.

[hi_bud_gl]

I've had enough now that I need a solution.

So far my solution has been 200 circles on the escher with slurry.

A lot has been said before me except this.
Greatwhitehuntr make 200 on Escher is unacceptable.
Escher is final touch stone not sharpener. Your blade should be almost shave ready condition before you go to Escher.
hope this helps.

[gratewhitehuntr]

Greatwhitehuntr make 200 on Escher is unacceptable.
hope this helps.

why you are thinking I am make this posting?

[hi_bud_gl]

why you are thinking I am make this posting?

i think we do have a little problem with our posting. let me explain what i am trying to say.
when someone asks for help and srp is so great everyone wants to help.As a result Person gets 10-15 advises and he is really gets confused.
That is why i did try single out the problem which i saw on your posting which no one has been mentioned before me.
I thought that will be simple and helpful.
instead of putting up my option how to sharpen and where is your mistakes etc which will confuse you more .

[gratewhitehuntr]

i think we do have a little problem with our posting. let me explain what i am trying to say.
when someone asks for help and srp is so great everyone wants to help.As a result Person gets 10-15 advises and he is really gets confused.
That is why i did try single out the problem which i saw on your posting which no one has been mentioned before me.
I thought that will be simple and helpful.
instead of putting up my option how to sharpen and where is your mistakes etc which will confuse you more .

I understood completely Sham.
I agree that this is wrong (using escher).
So I started a thread.

Remember the conversation in chat about how bad my Russian is?
Your English is still better than my Russian (not a word )

GLEN

I had been alternating the 25 degree strokes between heel-lead and toe-lead.

one of the major advantages of the scope is that you can see how many strokes it takes to erase the other scratches with a new direction
this way I wasn't wasting strokes

you CAN move the edge back on an escher (w/slurry), but it requires some thinking