Thanks. But I did leave out one part. some tools for certain uses can be and are every bit as sharp(edge dimension) as any straight razor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce
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Thanks. But I did leave out one part. some tools for certain uses can be and are every bit as sharp(edge dimension) as any straight razor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce
I now have the book. I think i'll spend some time studying the saw section.
I LOVE handsaws. Few things make me feel as potent as an excellent saw. I have never sharpened a single one.
Whiskers,Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskers
It is a model and a very good one. Mice are not men but they are models used to test this drug and that. Now in total respect for your point, the final proof would be the drug being testd on the human and in our enjoyable discussion the razor against the whisker.(not you, your whiskers Whisker:) Did you do that on purpose? Clever handle)
Let's say you have a really sharp knfe and you just finished puting a real good edge and wanted to test it. Cut the apple, cut the orange. Are you able to learn something about you edge? Did not the apple and the orange give you feedback to determine if your edge is good? Hair and cellulose are more similar than you think. In nature a buffalo's horn is basically hair fused together.I have turned horn on the lathe and turned wood, more similarities than difference IMHO. But maybe you are right and the model does not work, but you will have to do some work to make me understand.
Mike
The weirdest saw i ever sharpened was a Japanese pruning saw. There concept is so different than western saws. Nice thing about sharpening western saws is that in most cases all you need for minor sharpening is a triangular file. if their realy bad and need jointing i guess you could use a mill file or make some jig. New saws are mostly case hardened and I don't think sharpening is a good option. Modern throw out tools for modern men who use Modern shave equipment because they lost all of those skills. It is good to be with people who still "get it". Real men not sheeple.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevint
Mike
http://straightrazorpalace.com/images/icons/icon1.gif Welcome: What's this forum all about, anyway?
The trouble with honing is that most of us aren't content to just get a good shaving edge. No, we want the ultimate shaving edge.
This lifelong pursuit naturally involves the acquisition of all manner of exotic hones. Then there are the new techniques you'll try on those hones. And the odd sharpening mediums you'll seek out (does anyone know where I can get some lamp black to strop with?).
But for the new guys, this stuff can quickly become overwhelming. They start to think they need $700 in hones just to get a decent edge on their razors, and that leads to despair.
So we created the Advanced Honing section for discussion and questions of a more esoteric nature.
Examples of topics you might find here include:
- Rare and expensive varieties of hones
- Heavy-duting honing chores like restoring a chipped edge
- Detailed discussion of honing theory
Dear Advanced Honers,
Looking over the reason for Adv. Honing Forum,it appears we have lost site or interest in this discussion as there has been very little effort made to call out specific hones and discuss in depth if they have indeed new capabilities. Maybe we are all too busy, and I understand that as my vacation will come to a screaching halt next week:(
Reviewing what we have collectively accomplished here, please consider the following questions;
. was the subject esoteric enough to be entertained by members with advanced honing interest and capabilities?
. was the topic clearly defined and supported with enough literature e.g cited from Leonard Lee, and Mckenzie, Practice and Science of Standard Barbering.
.have members here not appreciated the effort I made to support each of your concerns by answering questions timely and factually.
.do i have your trust in that I am working for you, but not to be self promoting or selling anything other than the persuit of a better shave and to promote SRP.
Sincerely Yours,
Mike
Y'know Mike IME with a year and a half of perusing the forums daily and with my main interest being in honing and the rocks to do it with I don't think that most members "aren't content to just get a good shaving edge."
In my observations there are relatively few members who are crazy about honing the way that we are. Most want to maintain a razor or two. Among those of us to whom honing is a passion some are interested in the science and the theory while others, like myself, prefer a hands on approach. IOW, I don't need to understand electricity to turn on the lights.
The fact that an Escher cuts with quartz and a coticule with garnets is interesting but I was sharpening razors with them long before I knew that. Whether a Shapton has a polymer binder or a Naniwa a resin binder is not material to me as I run the razor across the hone.
So I don't knock the more analytical approach that folks like you, AF Davis, KevinT, jendeindustries to name a few have. I am glad that you are bringing this stuff up as I may learn enough to eventually appreciate that approach too. OTOH, don't be too disappointed if you don't see a lot of participation in that type of thread. IMO there aren't that many guys who are looking at sharpening on that deep a level. :shrug:
Mike I'm sure you did your best,
but the topic is rather on a very high level and some of us are only crafters.
For some of us, english is the second language.
Maybe give it a little more time and things will develop.
I know there are some real experts here who take things very scientific,
but I think it will take them a bit time to work themselves in into this style of conversation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0livia
Thanks Olivia,
But I think it is my lack of the english language skills that is more of the problem. I really did not mean to sound too scientific, but there are some super smart people that hang here that would serve my butt on a plate if I did not back up what I was trying to get accross. Really, maybe I should have said something like, "Do you guys thinks that so many people getting BBS means that our edges are better than they were when that book on Standard Barbering was written? And then let them begin there discussion with Shapton vs Norton and this one and that.. I Sharpen better than I communicate:) my problem is I write the way I think and it may be possible that I am a bit nuts:confused:
But for now I will take in your kind words and optimism. We all need some more of that:)
Michael
O dio, sei italiano? :)
.... I love this country so much and also the people there and from there.
My ex (numero uno) was italian! So I understand some things better now.
We are mortals! :) No more and no less!
We serve no asses (well usually not, LOL) on plates
and your english skills are so much better than mine (miiinzega!) :D
I've come across a website of a hone manufacturer lately
who advertises with a new recipe for longer standing time.
Different grain shape!
It was mostly regarding coarse industrial stuff though.
But there seems to be development.
Will ask my brother what he thinks about, but from what he's told me already
we are an endangered species actually.
The products we need, are such small numbers,
compared to the rest, that only very few manufacturers take care of our needs.
Hence there may be a little less progress among the fine grit stuff.
There's less competition in that field, so the manufacturers are lazy.
Well not being with the sharpening back then I can only go by my particular skill level with what was available back then as opposed to what is available now. It seems to me that modern synthetic hones and other media may offer a slight advantage in sharpening razors.
OTOH, the coticules and Eschers were great hones then and now. I am reluctant to open myself up to getting flamed but I will say IMO that while the coticule won't get a razor as scary sharp as a 16k Shapton or a 12k Naniwa it will get a razor sharp enough and more importantly will have a smoother feel than the scary sharp edges.
If I am not mistaken a barber would rather have a more comfortable and maybe longer lasting edge than what they would have with the scary sharp hones. Since I don't shave anyone but me I may be all wet on that assumption.
OTOH, as long as there is wood there will be wood workers and plane irons and chisels to sharpen as well as other tools for jewelers, machinists, and surgeons. So there will be some R&D and more to come down the road that we can adapt to la cosa nostra. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 0livia
Well I can only tell what my customers say:
They all liked the edges from the naturals.
Trouble started when I experimented with films and synthetics. :eek:
When turning on the lathe, trade your chisel for a shave ready straight razor blade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingfish
Shave with your woodturning chisel.
Heck, shave with an end grain plane.
Comparing turning horn and wood might be similar, sure.
How does that compare to the hair on my face??
My face is not rotating (except after alot of beer ha), especially when I shave.
Hair density? The hair on my face is no where even close to the density of horn.
skin vs wood ... Dude, need I say more?
Simply put, the relation is a distant stretch at best.
Si bella, sono italiano pero de Sicilia. Invece, sono Italiano a massimo:boohoo:Quote:
Originally Posted by 0livia
The market forces explain the limited choices.
Ciao,
Michael Antonino C
I know honers love naturals for good reason. There seems to be a refinement as well as a sharpness. I don't think that gives anyone using a synthetic stone an excuse for not doing things to get their edges every bit as comfortable. That is why with straights, I am back into .3 micron film(did I mention I really want the 30000 Shapton?) There was a time not long ago I could not finish, I mean really finish with almost no tooth visible, and feel comfy at that level.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskers
:beer2:Good Lord Whiskers,
I have turned my head quick for special reasons, but never got the whole thing rotating!!!LOL You could be totaly right.:( That would be OK, 26 years of married in August, I sure do know how to be wrong:beer2:
Mike
As I said to Olivia in the live chat .. I think I understand the essence of what you say . I don't understand some of the technical theory and comments in the whole thread -- but it's the essence thats the important thing ..
( I just know someone is gonna ask me what I percieve of it {check the irc logs LOL } )
Kind regards ... Garry
Some of the nicest guys are simply too shy :)
to add to my last post up there ^^:
So now I do the work on the synthetics and apply some natural make up later. :)
The info on the recipe mystery got me thinking back to an email conversation I had with Tilly back in 2006 , prior to her actually selling frictionite to the general folks she kindly sent me one to try ..Quote:
Originally Posted by jendeindustries
here it is :-)
Sometimes I think
when they made these hones the ingrediants varied because they did not
have anything measured out...I have hones that are exactly the same
hone,and are totally different colors...I have a box of seconds called
No. 24 frictionites....Much like the Lithide(in fact I think the lithide
is one of the frictionites)....Just my thoughts..
interesting :-)
kind regards Garry