Thread: Life on The Edge, What Is The Same, What Is Different

No one in their right state of mind, can not conclude that the communication available today is the single most influential variable that is responsible for the grassroots Straight Shaving movement as pointed out by Lynn and others. Giving that, lets hone in on what is really different about the edges we are creating and back it up with our own discoveries or information and studies of other pioneers in the field.
If you have Leonard Lee's book, read the study that begins on page 233 THE WORK OF DR. MCKENZIE. Why is a wood working article chosen, for protein slicers? What does wood have to do with hair? Well the answer to that for those not familiar with woodworking, this article Mckenzie is using low angle planes cutting end grain. Still confused? No problem, end grain is the fibers of the wood with you looking at them dead on, as if you just chained sawed a tree down and were looking face to face with the stump.
So in effect we are cutting end grain when we shave just like the study. Ok?
Now, the low angle plane blade different than blades set at a higher pitch. They are also called block planes and a low angle block plane without getting to technical could end up with a cutting angle of 27 degrees (bed angle plus bevel for woodworkers) skewing the blade(scything for shavers) lowers the angle even further making cutting or shaving easier. I could go on, but if you already understand the correlation of low angle planes and the Straight have this angle and the worked asked of them have remarkable similarity. (this is why I took an interest in sharpening Straights in the first place, end grain is the beautiful figued wood that can be seen on the back of fiddles and other instruments. Many types of figure in wood is cause by sudden changes in the direction of grain and it is very difficult to work without tearout) p83 Lee's. Many woodworkers reort to sand paper at this point, the better ones IMHO use a blade. Would you get a closer shave with sand paper, perhaps, but look at the collateral damage.
Now back to the Mckenzie study, sorry to drag you through that for folks familiar with wood, but you have to understand this would not be a credible source if you don't agree with and understand the relationship between endgrain and hair, low angle blades and the straight. DE users don't have to feel left out cause they are already shaving with block planes.
Turn to page 234, third paragraph and don't forget this was written in 1995 and the study was done in 1960. lee is comparing the edges level of sharpness of the Mckenzie study to the level of a power tool blade in 1995. Well I don't think you have to wonder too much on this one, how many power tool blades i.e circular saw, drill bits etc would have you arm hairs popping off. I don't think many woodworkers today would have blades that poorly sharpened today.More importantly, Lee's book from the very begining uses the razor p3 as the standard of sharpness for his tools. On the bottom of the page middle parargraphs Lee states "To our surprise and pleasure, we found that a number of our test chisels were in fact sharper than razor blades"
So what do we have in terms of hones that have come out since early to mid 90s. The Arkansas stones were being replaced by Japanese synthetics water stones. There was no 8000 DMT, no Shapton Glass Stones. In fact western honers were very reluctant to move away from oil stones, some still won't. So here is where I will leave off for now and need some help inviting your input as far as what changes mainly synthetic stones have come out since the mid 90s. Also entertaint the drastic changes in hone tech since 1960 where sharp standards were much lower than they were in 1995. How does this relate to what happend to the razor? Again let me remind you of the problematic end grain and that those tools dealing with it need to be as sharp as possible, razor sharp.
Michael

Michael, first of all thanks for brain gym with this essay.

Personally I do not think that a lot of improvement happened in the hone world of the last 50 years. You can find barber hones and you can find historic recipes to produce hones that are similar to nowadays' japanese water hones in a lot of aspects. Whether its binder or grain, there are only so many possibilities to make a hone and to sift the material.
What is actually new, is a contemporary style. Shapton Glass hones for example. IMO they are a genuine life style kind of product.

Steel is still the same different and whatever you hone it with doesn't really matter as long as the progression fits.

Originally Posted by 0livia

You can find barber hones and you can find historic recipes to produce hones that are similar to nowadays' japanese water hones in a lot of aspects. Whether its binder or grain, there are only so many possibilities to make a hone and to sift the material.

Okay, where can I find historic recipes to produce hones?

In my brother's head for example. (he's an engineer in a hone factory)
He made me two (different grits) that are quite allright.
Buddel has one of them (the coarser one) and I got some more here now.

He said its a very old recipe they used to manufacture for Solingen.
Reminds me a lot of my Tojiro 4000 in a many aspects.
The cracks for example, the milk and the sound when you knock on it as well.
Cuts fast, but not too coarse. Good for restos.

I don't think its as easy as it sounds.

As I recall the main hone producer in the U.S (I don't recall the name, they were located in Iowa) produced most of the hones sold under all kinds of razor manufacturer names and there was one woman there who mixed the ingredients and only she had the recipe and when she died suddenly they were never able to replicate the quality of the hones even though they knew the raw ingredients.

I've heard that story as well.
She has developed the basic recipe further.
I guess when someone spent the time and had a way to get rid of all those test hones, one could do that again.

I was hoping to get the crack line issue of my bro's resolved with later batches
but if Tojiro hasn't resolved it it probably won't.
They are much more expensive nowadays. Thats a big difference.

Originally Posted by 0livia

Michael, first of all thanks for brain gym with this essay.

Personally I do not think that a lot of improvement happened in the hone world of the last 50 years. You can find barber hones and you can find historic recipes to produce hones that are similar to nowadays' japanese water hones in a lot of aspects. What is actually new, is a contemporary style. Shapton Glass hones for example. IMO they are a genuine life style kind of product.

Steel is still the same different and whatever you hone it with doesn't really matter as long as the progression fits.

Good Evening Olivia,
Do you have Lee's tome on sharpening? Hand tool sharp in the 60s in Mckenzie's study was according to Lee equivalent to power tool edges. Power tools use RPMs with edges that would not impress anyone in this forum. I repect the work of both men cited above and their stellar reputations in the field of sharpening. In 95 Lee's edges for his own experiments were as good or better than commercial razor blades at that time. Not my words, not my ideas, Leonard Lee.

Quote Olivia,
"Whether its binder or grain, there are only so many possibilities to make a hone and to sift the material."

Never under estimate the talent involved with materials and the room for technical expansion of those same materials to make a much better product. We are after all in the "nano age" and if we are not getting particles in better arrangements, especially when it comes to hones, we are not with it. Look at a simple elemental carbon, this is just one type of atom and the way it is arranged gives us graphite, soot or a beautiful diamond. That is one element, from the softness of graphite to the hardness of a diamond.
Mike

Tom (jende industries) recommended Leonard Lee's book very highly for an overview of sharpening theory and practice. Many 5 star reviews for it on Amazon. I have intended to pick up a copy but haven't gotten around to it yet. Thanks for the topic. It should be interesting to follow.

You guys tell me how this one works out.......

In the mean time, I gots lots a razors to hone........

Anybody mention any of the resin bonding going on???? I like the micro stabilization of some of the particles being used in the hones out there these days, although all the way up to the ol' Arkansas Translucents that have been around a while and all the other magnificent naturals out there. How can you really get consensus on this one.

Should be fun

Thanks,

Lynn

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Tom (jende industries) recommended Leonard Lee's book very highly for an overview of sharpening theory and practice. Many 5 star reviews for it on Amazon. I have intended to pick up a copy but haven't gotten around to it yet. Thanks for the topic. It should be interesting to follow.

Your quite welcome Jimmy. I think it is one of the better books on sharpening although it is already dated as far as stone reviews. I an trying to remember if it even mentions Norton Water stones. It is like anything else when you get into esoteric subjects, there is never just one book that will have everything you are looking for, but it is a must have for honeing madmen.
Mike