Attaining consistency?

I'm a newcomer to honing, having only been at it for about a year. I get good results...eventually. But I can't seem to get good results "on demand" with any razor I come across, in any predictable time frame. Especially heavier grinds.

The main reason I respect the honemeisters on the forum is not so much their ability to get a given razor really sharp. It's their ability to be sent razors in all conditions, and all grinds, from all comers, and reliably hone them to extreme sharpness in a predictable time period, and get them back to people quickly. As someone who loves to hone and does it a lot, this ability (gift?) just amazes me.

I go through long periods where I can only hone razors to the brink of usable sharpness, but never quite get them to pass HHT or other shave-readiness tests. So I'll put them down, and try again the next day, and the next, same results. Then one day, it all works - I can go through three of four razors that I couldn't get sharp, and bang-bang-bang, they are all hair-popping sharp with only an hour's effort. Same razors, same stone or stones, same guy honing. Nothing I'm doing sticks out to me as different when this happens, I can just suddenly "feel" the hone, and the razors simply get really sharp. The next day, whatever juju I had going is gone, and I don't get it back for a while. Sometimes a day or two, sometimes weeks.

For those of you who quickly hone razors for a fee, or for private honers that are consistently successful, are there any tips you can offer to improve consistency in results? Is this just a matter of your experience, or are there specific things we can learn from your approach?

Thanks!

You must calm down and realize that facts are facts. Step one in honing a razor is setting the correct bevel on the edge. Refer to the WIKI. Once the bevel is set, we begin the polishing process which usually begins with the 4000 grit Norton and proceeds up to at least the 8000 grit Norton and again, usually to around the 12000 grit evel or so.

If you are confused or bewildered, it is because you do not understand step one and then the steps afterwards. You cannot polish an edge unless the bevel has been set. Setting a bevel is sometimes a shorter process than polishing the bevel. Some people will disagree but if you set your bevel with a DMT 325, your bevel is achieved in short order.

All of this nonsense is covered in the WIKI and if you would like to expand on the WIKI, check out the posts by SRP member hi_bud_gl and the posts and tips by Lynn and don't forget Jimmy and Glenn.

hi_bud_gl's posts about honing will keep you busy for the next 10 years or so.............. Stop being a newbie and move forward asap.

JERRY :)
~~~~

As with everything, it just takes practise. Or rather it takes a while to realize what mistakes you're making and how to correct them.

not setting the bevel quite right being your issue makes a lot of sense imo.

I think no matter what hones you are using that reviewing the basics are in order. The hones must be flat. The blades should not be warped. The bevel must be set. Go through the progression and have a light touch at the end. After that the practice is what counts.

bj

This is one reason I'm not a big fan of people jumping on the "honemeister" wagon and honing razors for people before they are ready. It really does take a few years to get good at it (not that I am).

For me honing came in a few epiphanies that just hit me like a brick one day. One, you are sculpting a edge like an artist, not honing. Two, polishing is important, and three, geometry has to be evaluated before you start honing.

The third is probably the final step you start thinking about, after you hone around 100 or so edges. By about the 200 point you start falling into a good pattern.

I would suggest you start every new honing project with a careful look down the spine and look at the spine wear. Then evaluate what that spine wear will mean on the edge when you start honing. Another approach is to evaluate what occurs to the edge after honing. I like to start by using a 12K and do some polishing, then, evaluate what I'm seeing against the edge. Lots of other people put "black marker" of some sort and then polish. Personally I think this is a silly approach, but it works, so I've never before said that in public. Essentially though I would say that you are probably not evaluating what the hone is doing to the edge carefully enough, or early enough.

Lots of guys hone a razor and then when they are done they start to evaluate where the edge is actually sharp. By then you've done a lot to aggravate any geometric problems that were already created originally.

The mental mindset I use for honing is to think of a triangle between spine, edge, and back to the spine. Anything that might interfere with this perfect triangle must be fixed first when you begin your honing.

Tim i would say couple words.
At first and main factor which will help you is patient. If you have enough patience you will get there.
Second.
Most people makes mistake to get the sharpest edge out there.
This approach is making a lot people to fail.
Reason's are.
You will never ever able to get exact sharpness from 2 different branded blades.
What you can do is get what blade will give to You?
What i mean by that. Every single blade will get curtain sharpness( i call it properly honed razor) . In some cases properly honed blade will shave great, in others ok and third ones not good.Depends on brands not you.
In my opinion What person can do is get proper honed blade and be honest himself .
this is how much sharpness this blade can get . if you push more it will get over hone and shave great half of your face.
Now what you can do?
You need to know when you stop. The day you will find out the stopping point you will be great honer. you do have blades honed some other people check the edge see what you see that will help you a lot.
i hope i was helpful. Sorry for broken English

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FatboySlim

I'm a newcomer to honing, having only been at it for about a year. I get good results...eventually. But I can't seem to get good results "on demand" with any razor I come across, in any predictable time frame. Especially heavier grinds.

The main reason I respect the honemeisters on the forum is not so much their ability to get a given razor really sharp. It's their ability to be sent razors in all conditions, and all grinds, from all comers, and reliably hone them to extreme sharpness in a predictable time period, and get them back to people quickly. As someone who loves to hone and does it a lot, this ability (gift?) just amazes me.

I go through long periods where I can only hone razors to the brink of usable sharpness, but never quite get them to pass HHT or other shave-readiness tests. So I'll put them down, and try again the next day, and the next, same results. Then one day, it all works - I can go through three of four razors that I couldn't get sharp, and bang-bang-bang, they are all hair-popping sharp with only an hour's effort. Same razors, same stone or stones, same guy honing. Nothing I'm doing sticks out to me as different when this happens, I can just suddenly "feel" the hone, and the razors simply get really sharp. The next day, whatever juju I had going is gone, and I don't get it back for a while. Sometimes a day or two, sometimes weeks.

For those of you who quickly hone razors for a fee, or for private honers that are consistently successful, are there any tips you can offer to improve consistency in results? Is this just a matter of your experience, or are there specific things we can learn from your approach?

Thanks!

---

This sounds like my golf game. One day I have it, and the next day......I don't! :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Tim i would say couple words.
At first and main factor which will help you is patient. If you have enough patience you will get there.
Second.
Most people makes mistake to get the sharpest edge out there.
This approach is making a lot people to fail.
Reason's are.
You will never ever able to get exact sharpness from 2 different branded blades.
What you can do is get what blade will give to You?
What i mean by that. Every single blade will get curtain sharpness( i call it properly honed razor) . In some cases properly honed blade will shave great, in others ok and third ones not good.Depends on brands not you.
In my opinion What person can do is get proper honed blade and be honest himself .
this is how much sharpness this blade can get . if you push more it will get over hone and shave great half of your face.
Now what you can do?
You need to know when you stop. The day you will find out the stopping point you will be great honer. you do have blades honed some other people check the edge see what you see that will help you a lot.
i hope i was helpful. Sorry for broken English

---

Thank you all for taking the time to provide your advice (and sympathies).

Sham, thank you for your interesting reply. You've provided some insights I haven't thought of before.

I've assumed that any non-junk razor can be honed extremely sharp. I (eventually) get mine sharp, but I definitely notice that some can't seem to hold that edge very long. This is with very similar shaving and stropping routines. Some can hold a very sharp edge for many weeks, others don't stand up to more than a few shaves. Shaving my neck is a waste of time with anything less than a very high level of sharpness, the blade just rides over the thick stubble without cutting.

Perhaps I went into this with unrealistic expectations of all razors, and that I am over-honing some of them to only temporarily reach a level sharpness that can't really be maintained. So I re-hone them, and because I over-honed the first time, later honings are more difficult.

Now that I think about it, these "re-honings" are largely where I'm having issues. The one that's getting me now is a Le Grelot 1/4 grind (the cool 6/8ths TI re-grinds with the thumb notch). When I got the razor originally, I honed it to just a fantastic edge. But the edge didn't hold up well, stropping didn't help, I needed to "refresh" it weekly. Then one day, I dropped it on a hardwood floor it while stropping. I was shocked at the HUGE chip in the edge. I've reduced it greatly over many laps at higher grits, as I didn't want to lose any more blade than I had to. But it has never taken a shaving edge again since that chip.

My other Le Grelots 3/4 hollows are great razors that both readily take and hold a sharp edge, but this 1/4 hollow has given me fits. Maybe I originally over-honed it to the point where it chipped readily. Or maybe I should just send it out for a complete do-over, instead of banging my head against the wall. :) :banghead:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FatboySlim

My other Le Grelots 3/4 hollows are great razors that both readily take and hold a sharp edge, but this 1/4 hollow has given me fits. Maybe I originally over-honed it to the point where it chipped readily. Or maybe I should just send it out for a complete do-over, instead of banging my head against the wall. :) :banghead:

---

I agree with you on this.
Try send it out and get it honed. when you got back check the edge see what were you missing etc.
if you have bay blades (cheap ones ) when you have free time play with them just sharpen lets say on 1 k only - 5 raizors check the edges see what is similar and what is not.
then move same blades to 4k (examples ok) and so on. this will help you just see the edges comes off from same grit in different level.(in reality they should be same).but they won't
hope this helps.

Not that I am honemiester level or anything BUT...

re-evaluate your edges coming off (approx) 1000 grit stones. They should look even, feel evenly sharp etc. Really romance your razors on those lower grit stones until you are 100% sure the edge is ready to move up in grit.

I mean try to get them shave ready at that grit with super light passes, watch your form and so on. Treat it like you are being watched by a professional and make sure your passes are sure and smooth.

It will really even out the polishing side of your progression and give you a lot more consistency.

I don't claim to be a honemiester and mostly hone for myself. The few I've honed for others were not done for money. That said I don't know that all honemiesters don't have their hits and misses with various blades. I usually have good luck with full hollows and trouble with wedges.

I have more consistency than I used to because I have been using a consistent method (pyramid) with the same stones. I have many hones and used to vary the method and what I used a lot and got to know many of them a little but none of them well.

When I bought the Naniwa Superstones I disciplined myself to stick with them and i have begun to really know them. Not a bad thing because i really like them. I may deviate once I get beyond the pyramid and into the finishing but I get my razors sharp with the same set using the same method... at least for the time being.

Some of them take 45 minutes and others more than one session and maybe hours. I don't keep track. That is why I've often said that if guys who hone for $20.00 a razor charged by the hour it would be a hell of a price tag on some of them. Maybe I am wrong and some or all of the honemiesters knock them all out in short order. I will keep at it and maybe I'll get there someday.

For now I have only recently changed from honing everything with taped spines to honing without it. This means I have one heck of a lot of razors to practice on all over again. Like Sham said .... patience. :) It can get frustrating sometimes and then I put the razor down and go do something else. Like the old saying about focus on the journey, not the destination.

Most professional baseball pitchers are pretty outstanding performers and on day one with the same ball, same park, same weather they can pitch a no hitter and the next day get sacked in the second inning. Go figure. No different with honing. Given you and the same stone and the same blade and the same table and chair you can have different results on different days. Maybe a little more focus, or a thousand and one other factors that can effect you. The more you do this thing the better you become and different hardware items affect you less and less but you the human factor can vary the most. Just my 2 cents.

Keep at it. I have honed for others and i can say every razor is tough. I will never be honemeister. i just try to make shaving razors, not odd shaped scalpels to cut people with. Its tough and like has been said above, it takes experience and patience. Some day I will get there, but I have a few years to go.
Good Luck
Trey

Thanks for the encouragement. If I didn't spend so much time practicing this, it wouldn't bother me so much when I hit a wall. The lead factor in causing me to switch from vintage DEs to straights way back was the possibility of honing my own "custom" shaving edges myself. So it matters to me.

Rather than keep banging into that wall, I opted to swallow hard and just do a do-over. If the complete do-over didn't work, then maybe I've really gone off the rails somewhere, and would send it out for a re-hone.

Last night I took it all the way down to DMT 1200, then BBW with slurry, then my "soft" coticule, then my new "hard" coticule, finishing with a Nakayama Asagi and a good stropping. Back when I bought it, I never actually took it all the way back down to 1200 grit. I just "refined" it starting with a coticule and light slurry, as I felt it was pretty close.

Just 90 minutes later, with only a bit less razor for the honing, I'm back in business. The Le Grelot 1/4 grind is as good as it ever got, readily popping hair again. Maybe I went off track somewhere in over-honing, then made it worse by insisting on staying at the upper grits to remove the chip. With so many strokes, maybe I rounded the bevel. I'm inclined now to still send it off to a honemeister to evaluate and honestly critique, just to make sure the new bevel and progression are sound and that I'm not going to repeating my mistakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FatboySlim

Thanks for the encouragement. If I didn't spend so much time practicing this, it wouldn't bother me so much when I hit a wall. The lead factor in causing me to switch from vintage DEs to straights way back was the possibility of honing my own "custom" shaving edges myself. So it matters to me.

Rather than keep banging into that wall, I opted to swallow hard and just do a do-over. If the complete do-over didn't work, then maybe I've really gone off the rails somewhere, and would send it out for a re-hone.

Last night I took it all the way down to DMT 1200, then BBW with slurry, then my "soft" coticule, then my new "hard" coticule, finishing with a Nakayama Asagi and a good stropping. Back when I bought it, I never actually took it all the way back down to 1200 grit. I just "refined" it starting with a coticule and light slurry, as I felt it was pretty close.

Just 90 minutes later, with only a bit less razor for the honing, I'm back in business. The Le Grelot 1/4 grind is as good as it ever got, readily popping hair again. Maybe I went off track somewhere in over-honing, then made it worse by insisting on staying at the upper grits to remove the chip. With so many strokes, maybe I rounded the bevel. I'm inclined now to still send it off to a honemeister to evaluate and honestly critique, just to make sure the new bevel and progression are sound and that I'm not going to repeating my mistakes.

---

Good deal man, working like a dog on the lower grits will ALWAYS pay off. Even if you go to the next grit-level and "find" some ugly spots that weren't apparent at 1200 (seems to happen to me often on a full restore)... drop back down and do it over.

Low grit honing is king, the rest is just...well, finishing.