Thread: Attaining consistency?

I'm a newcomer to honing, having only been at it for about a year. I get good results...eventually. But I can't seem to get good results "on demand" with any razor I come across, in any predictable time frame. Especially heavier grinds.

The main reason I respect the honemeisters on the forum is not so much their ability to get a given razor really sharp. It's their ability to be sent razors in all conditions, and all grinds, from all comers, and reliably hone them to extreme sharpness in a predictable time period, and get them back to people quickly. As someone who loves to hone and does it a lot, this ability (gift?) just amazes me.

I go through long periods where I can only hone razors to the brink of usable sharpness, but never quite get them to pass HHT or other shave-readiness tests. So I'll put them down, and try again the next day, and the next, same results. Then one day, it all works - I can go through three of four razors that I couldn't get sharp, and bang-bang-bang, they are all hair-popping sharp with only an hour's effort. Same razors, same stone or stones, same guy honing. Nothing I'm doing sticks out to me as different when this happens, I can just suddenly "feel" the hone, and the razors simply get really sharp. The next day, whatever juju I had going is gone, and I don't get it back for a while. Sometimes a day or two, sometimes weeks.

For those of you who quickly hone razors for a fee, or for private honers that are consistently successful, are there any tips you can offer to improve consistency in results? Is this just a matter of your experience, or are there specific things we can learn from your approach?

Thanks!

You must calm down and realize that facts are facts. Step one in honing a razor is setting the correct bevel on the edge. Refer to the WIKI. Once the bevel is set, we begin the polishing process which usually begins with the 4000 grit Norton and proceeds up to at least the 8000 grit Norton and again, usually to around the 12000 grit evel or so.

If you are confused or bewildered, it is because you do not understand step one and then the steps afterwards. You cannot polish an edge unless the bevel has been set. Setting a bevel is sometimes a shorter process than polishing the bevel. Some people will disagree but if you set your bevel with a DMT 325, your bevel is achieved in short order.

All of this nonsense is covered in the WIKI and if you would like to expand on the WIKI, check out the posts by SRP member hi_bud_gl and the posts and tips by Lynn and don't forget Jimmy and Glenn.

hi_bud_gl's posts about honing will keep you busy for the next 10 years or so.............. Stop being a newbie and move forward asap.

JERRY
~~~~

As with everything, it just takes practise. Or rather it takes a while to realize what mistakes you're making and how to correct them.

not setting the bevel quite right being your issue makes a lot of sense imo.

I think no matter what hones you are using that reviewing the basics are in order. The hones must be flat. The blades should not be warped. The bevel must be set. Go through the progression and have a light touch at the end. After that the practice is what counts.

bj

This is one reason I'm not a big fan of people jumping on the "honemeister" wagon and honing razors for people before they are ready. It really does take a few years to get good at it (not that I am).

For me honing came in a few epiphanies that just hit me like a brick one day. One, you are sculpting a edge like an artist, not honing. Two, polishing is important, and three, geometry has to be evaluated before you start honing.

The third is probably the final step you start thinking about, after you hone around 100 or so edges. By about the 200 point you start falling into a good pattern.

I would suggest you start every new honing project with a careful look down the spine and look at the spine wear. Then evaluate what that spine wear will mean on the edge when you start honing. Another approach is to evaluate what occurs to the edge after honing. I like to start by using a 12K and do some polishing, then, evaluate what I'm seeing against the edge. Lots of other people put "black marker" of some sort and then polish. Personally I think this is a silly approach, but it works, so I've never before said that in public. Essentially though I would say that you are probably not evaluating what the hone is doing to the edge carefully enough, or early enough.

Lots of guys hone a razor and then when they are done they start to evaluate where the edge is actually sharp. By then you've done a lot to aggravate any geometric problems that were already created originally.

The mental mindset I use for honing is to think of a triangle between spine, edge, and back to the spine. Anything that might interfere with this perfect triangle must be fixed first when you begin your honing.

Tim i would say couple words.
At first and main factor which will help you is patient. If you have enough patience you will get there.
Second.
Most people makes mistake to get the sharpest edge out there.
This approach is making a lot people to fail.
Reason's are.
You will never ever able to get exact sharpness from 2 different branded blades.
What you can do is get what blade will give to You?
What i mean by that. Every single blade will get curtain sharpness( i call it properly honed razor) . In some cases properly honed blade will shave great, in others ok and third ones not good.Depends on brands not you.
In my opinion What person can do is get proper honed blade and be honest himself .
this is how much sharpness this blade can get . if you push more it will get over hone and shave great half of your face.
Now what you can do?
You need to know when you stop. The day you will find out the stopping point you will be great honer. you do have blades honed some other people check the edge see what you see that will help you a lot.
i hope i was helpful. Sorry for broken English

Originally Posted by FatboySlim

I'm a newcomer to honing, having only been at it for about a year. I get good results...eventually. But I can't seem to get good results "on demand" with any razor I come across, in any predictable time frame. Especially heavier grinds.

The main reason I respect the honemeisters on the forum is not so much their ability to get a given razor really sharp. It's their ability to be sent razors in all conditions, and all grinds, from all comers, and reliably hone them to extreme sharpness in a predictable time period, and get them back to people quickly. As someone who loves to hone and does it a lot, this ability (gift?) just amazes me.

I go through long periods where I can only hone razors to the brink of usable sharpness, but never quite get them to pass HHT or other shave-readiness tests. So I'll put them down, and try again the next day, and the next, same results. Then one day, it all works - I can go through three of four razors that I couldn't get sharp, and bang-bang-bang, they are all hair-popping sharp with only an hour's effort. Same razors, same stone or stones, same guy honing. Nothing I'm doing sticks out to me as different when this happens, I can just suddenly "feel" the hone, and the razors simply get really sharp. The next day, whatever juju I had going is gone, and I don't get it back for a while. Sometimes a day or two, sometimes weeks.

For those of you who quickly hone razors for a fee, or for private honers that are consistently successful, are there any tips you can offer to improve consistency in results? Is this just a matter of your experience, or are there specific things we can learn from your approach?

Thanks!

This sounds like my golf game. One day I have it, and the next day......I don't!

Keep at it. I have honed for others and i can say every razor is tough. I will never be honemeister. i just try to make shaving razors, not odd shaped scalpels to cut people with. Its tough and like has been said above, it takes experience and patience. Some day I will get there, but I have a few years to go.
Good Luck
Trey

Thanks for the encouragement. If I didn't spend so much time practicing this, it wouldn't bother me so much when I hit a wall. The lead factor in causing me to switch from vintage DEs to straights way back was the possibility of honing my own "custom" shaving edges myself. So it matters to me.

Rather than keep banging into that wall, I opted to swallow hard and just do a do-over. If the complete do-over didn't work, then maybe I've really gone off the rails somewhere, and would send it out for a re-hone.

Last night I took it all the way down to DMT 1200, then BBW with slurry, then my "soft" coticule, then my new "hard" coticule, finishing with a Nakayama Asagi and a good stropping. Back when I bought it, I never actually took it all the way back down to 1200 grit. I just "refined" it starting with a coticule and light slurry, as I felt it was pretty close.

Just 90 minutes later, with only a bit less razor for the honing, I'm back in business. The Le Grelot 1/4 grind is as good as it ever got, readily popping hair again. Maybe I went off track somewhere in over-honing, then made it worse by insisting on staying at the upper grits to remove the chip. With so many strokes, maybe I rounded the bevel. I'm inclined now to still send it off to a honemeister to evaluate and honestly critique, just to make sure the new bevel and progression are sound and that I'm not going to repeating my mistakes.

Originally Posted by FatboySlim

Thanks for the encouragement. If I didn't spend so much time practicing this, it wouldn't bother me so much when I hit a wall. The lead factor in causing me to switch from vintage DEs to straights way back was the possibility of honing my own "custom" shaving edges myself. So it matters to me.

Rather than keep banging into that wall, I opted to swallow hard and just do a do-over. If the complete do-over didn't work, then maybe I've really gone off the rails somewhere, and would send it out for a re-hone.

Last night I took it all the way down to DMT 1200, then BBW with slurry, then my "soft" coticule, then my new "hard" coticule, finishing with a Nakayama Asagi and a good stropping. Back when I bought it, I never actually took it all the way back down to 1200 grit. I just "refined" it starting with a coticule and light slurry, as I felt it was pretty close.

Just 90 minutes later, with only a bit less razor for the honing, I'm back in business. The Le Grelot 1/4 grind is as good as it ever got, readily popping hair again. Maybe I went off track somewhere in over-honing, then made it worse by insisting on staying at the upper grits to remove the chip. With so many strokes, maybe I rounded the bevel. I'm inclined now to still send it off to a honemeister to evaluate and honestly critique, just to make sure the new bevel and progression are sound and that I'm not going to repeating my mistakes.

Good deal man, working like a dog on the lower grits will ALWAYS pay off. Even if you go to the next grit-level and "find" some ugly spots that weren't apparent at 1200 (seems to happen to me often on a full restore)... drop back down and do it over.

Low grit honing is king, the rest is just...well, finishing.