High Grit Pyramid

[Kingfish]

Been experimenting with finishing pyramid with the Nakayama and the Shapton 30k. The Nakayama then the 30k with one piece of tape. I did a few cycles back and forth removing tape when going back to Nakayama. The slurried Nakayama without tape continues to refine and define the edge so when you return to the 30k you are cleaning up a finer and cleaner edge each cycle. The hazy bevel fades into a cleaner shiny edge with noticeable difference in reduction of microchipping than when doing the normal progression.

[holli4pirating]

Could you post more clearly about what you are doing? I'm curious, but I don't follow what you did.

What honing method are you comparing to and how are you making your comparison? Do you normally get microchipping at high grits, and how do you define microchipping?

[Kingfish]

Could you post more clearly about what you are doing? I'm curious, but I don't follow what you did.

What honing method are you comparing to and how are you making your comparison? Do you normally get microchipping at high grits, and how do you define microchipping?

My normal finish is to use the Nakayama first then one piece of tape with the 30k. The final edge is just that much cleaner and defined under the pyramid. It looks like an edge that was prepared with a "jointing"which I have done before but have abandoned long ago. I am looking a it 100x magnification.

1.Basically, hone with the Nakayama just as if you were ready to go to pastes or stropping level
2.Then, add tape hone on 30k
3.Take off tape back to Nakayama with light slurry made with DMT
4.Add tape back to 30k

I have been going through about 3 or four cycles like this and it goes pretty quick.

By doing this the light slurry on the Nakayama refines the microbevel left by the 30k and "tightens" the edge to another degree.

[gssixgun]

I don't use the Japanese natural but I have been messing with the final finishing strokes using the Shapton 30k for sometime now...
You can go from good, to great, to bad, really quickly at these grit levels but here is what I have found to be most consistent for me...

First use it on the right razors, not all razors like those high grits...
Second I am using a 3-2-1 on it and it seems to be better then either all honing strokes or all backhoning strokes..

I go 3 honing, 2 backhoning, 1 honing, and stop...

[Kingfish]

I don't use the Japanese natural but I have been messing with the final finishing strokes using the Shapton 30k for sometime now...
You can go from good, to great, to bad, really quickly at these grit levels but here is what I have found to be most consistent for me...

First use it on the right razors, not all razors like those high grits...
Second I am using a 3-2-1 on it and it seems to be better then either all honing strokes or all backhoning strokes..

I go 3 honing, 2 backhoning, 1 honing, and stop...

I have tried comming into the 30k off cotis, escher, and shaptons and the most consistant results have been off the Nakayama. The Nakayama has the ability to clean the edge of microburs as it sharpens like no other stone IME. It has worked from softer sheffield steel to swedish. Indeed, some blades that I have tried every trick in the book(which admittadly are less than yours) only come into there best off the Nakayama, especially ones that are more brittle and prone to microchips.

[JimmyHAD]

I hadn't messed with the 30k pro much since I got it. I felt like what I was getting off of the 15k pro, 12k naniwa, Escher or even a hard coti was good enough. Kingfish's posts about his 30k experiences piqued my curiosity.

I took 3 razors that I have been fooling with on naturals and did a pyramid on my naniwas from 1 thru 12k and then went to the 30k pro. I did 20 to 30 x strokes with the weight of the blade. I know that some people think that is too much of a good thing but The Topher more or less taught me that # when I used to visit him and watch him hone. I seem to be stuck on it.

The good news is that all three of those razors were way better when I shaved with them in sharpness and smoothness than they had ever been off of any other hone sequence. So I am becoming a believer in the magic of the 30k.

[Kingfish]

I did 20 to 30 x strokes with the weight of the blade. I know that some people think that is too much of a good thing but The Topher more or less taught me that # when I used to visit him and watch him hone. I seem to be stuck on it.

The good news is that all three of those razors were way better when I shaved with them in sharpness and smoothness than they had ever been off of any other hone sequence. So I am becoming a believer in the magic of the 30k.

I don't count laps but if I did, it would probably close to what you are doing. When it feels like I am slicing the top of my hone off I know the hone has done what it could. At that point I take a look under the microscope to confirm. Most times I am pretty close, but various style grinds and steels can fool you too. At 100x you can for the most part see what sharp and smooth look like.

[JimmyHAD]

I don't count laps but if I did, it would probably close to what you are doing. When it feels like I am slicing the top of my hone off I know the hone has done what it could. At that point I take a look under the microscope to confirm. Most times I am pretty close, but various style grinds and steels can fool you too. At 100x you can for the most part see what sharp and smooth look like.

Once Bart and I were corresponding and found that we both have experienced the blade getting to the point where it kind of "chatters", for lack of a better term, as it goes across the hone. I experienced that with a couple of the fore mentioned blades on the 30k. I've experienced it on other finishers as well but not always.

[Kingfish]

Just an update for others experimenters and sport honers out there. This pyramid has been giving less than satisfying results in the shave test. It does not pull, but at the same time, it does not feel as smooth. Here is a case where it looks better than it works where it counts. Is it possible that the edge has been worked too thin and distortion turns the more flexible edge inward against the skin? In any effent, back to what works.......for now