Setting the Bevel, a vague definition.

I dont remember where i saw this, perhaps in a book, anyway it was written that the definition "Bevel Setting" was vague an missing accuracy, and it was suggested to divide in 3 specific categories.

Bevel rebuilt = After removing large chips, breadknifing, serrated razor edge, rebuilding a complete bevel from scratch.

Bevel repair= Working out some rust and minor chips.

Bevel correction = On a dull razor just refreshing each side of the bevel. To expose new metal.

Unmistakably a big difference between a "correction" VS "rebuilt", and yet we still use the same definition.

The definition of 'bevel' is going to be the same whatever the reason for re-establishing it might be. A razor can have no bevel, a misshapen bevel or a damaged bevel, but having a proper bevel is always the goal. A bevel is essentially the V-shaped structure of the edge of the blade where the two sides of the razor meet in a point or longitudinally an edge. Having a clear sense of the goal of honing, starting with the bevel, gives us a destination to move toward and by which to evaluate our honing progress.

I wouldn't worry about definitions or descriptions. it's all the same just a matter of degree. When you are working on the edge whether stropping or resetting you are working on the bevel.

20-40 circles per side on a 1k stone, and then 20 or so X laps to even up the work = Bevel set

Anything taking a lower grit stone, or a longer amount of time, is restoration in my book :)

After I am done with the restoration, then I set the Bevel :p

After the Bevel is set, then I hone the razor

Those are my definitions :D

I usually use a loupe to see how the bevel is coming along and of course I use the TNT that usually tells me when it's ready

id just like to add that i took a smile out bread-knifing last night on DMT325 ... it felt so wrong like i should of smacked myself ...lol.. ive done so much to learn how to make them sharp and now i purposely made it dull ....lol... gonna let the boy use it this weekend before start the bevel process ..

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Originally Posted by gooser

id just like to add that i took a smile out bread-knifing last night on DMT325 ... it felt so wrong like i should of smacked myself ...lol.. ive done so much to learn how to make them sharp and now i purposely made it dull ....lol... gonna let the boy use it this weekend before start the bevel process ..

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Remember what Confucius say: "Man who breadknife razor can eat cake."

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Originally Posted by ace

A bevel is essentially the V-shaped structure of the edge of the blade where the two sides of the razor meet in a point or longitudinally an edge.

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Only because this is a nit picky thread...

Technically a bevel is the taper on one face or side of the razor. Traditionally a razor has two bevels (one on each side or blade face) and ideally these bevels meet. More ideally still, they meet at the centerline of the blade (excluding some special blades such as Kamisori). If these conditions are met, the edge or intersection of the bevels lies in a single plane that extends through the edge and the center of the spine.

Regardless of what precedes the creation of a continuous intersection of these two bevels. The bevels are "set" when the intersection is established completely (in my book at least). Any work beyond this is honing.

Obviously exceptions exist, and various degrees of non-ideal conditions are possible (such as a warped blade).

:D

Okay so I used a 250 for the first time and some of you saw it. This bread knife thing is not how I took out a frown. I had seen someone use the edge of the hone and a straight down approach. Maybe this should be a new thread but I am here now :<0) Which is better and why for *cough cough** setting a bevel. Some said a 250 will crack a blade when setting a bevel and that got me wondering how ? I got more bevel setting/repair/correction/alteration to do :<0). And now I don't even know what to call it !

Did I just spill the open can of worms ?

Imagine scooting a hardened steel razor blade down a gravel road...the road is so coarse that the rocks would likely impact and chip or crack the blade.

Now think of something finer than a gravel road...at some point you will get fine enough that the "rocks" floating around in the slurry are not large enough to wreck a blade.

Some razors may be more delicate than others. 250 is quite coarse, but in some cases I might use a diamond hone that coarse to get through some major damage (no slurry). I have not cracked a blade....but I'm hardly a veteran with razor honing.

Setting a bevel = making the two sides of the razor meet at a "fine enough" point along the entire straight edge. The definition of "fine enough" can be quibbled over, but setting a bevel is not, IMO, any more complicated than that.

James.

:aargh:Thanks for all the great bevel descriptions!:banghead:

In some regards some things cannot be defined beyond the vague. "Shave ready" or "properly finished" are such examples, I think. They are somewhat subjective. We might have some agreement on what is not shave ready, or properly finished but we potentially have different expectations, wants, or needs for what is.

Such are the blurry lines between repair, restore, and correction. I think perhaps we all have to draw our own lines as appropriate. And for those that offer services...they have to convey their definitions and prices somehow;)

I think there might be some confusion regarding the difference between the goal and the process going on here.

Bevel setting to me is the goal in this context. It is in fact, at least in the way I think of it, black and white - as in the bevel is either set or it is not.

When you start bringing in the initial condition of the razor and defining things like "chip removal", "restoration honing" etc, then you are talking about a process. And processes are subjective with many many shades of grey.

To me bevel setting is a black box - a razor goes in, a bevel-set razor comes out. What goes on in the box is another matter altogether.

James.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

I think there might be some confusion regarding the difference between the goal and the process going on here.

Bevel setting to me is the goal in this context. It is in fact, at least in the way I think of it, black and white - as in the bevel is either set or it is not.

When you start bringing in the initial condition of the razor and defining things like "chip removal", "restoration honing" etc, then you are talking about a process. And processes are subjective with many many shades of grey.

To me bevel setting is a black box - a razor goes in, a bevel-set razor comes out. What goes on in the box is another matter altogether.

James.

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Some razors sure require a bigger box :rofl2:

I find there is two ways to go;
either you follow the razor and let the bevel be as good as the shape of the back and the overall shape of the razor permits.
In that case you often end up with an uneven bevel, more so on a warped razor.

The other way is that you with tricks of tape, x-strokes and so on, give it an even nice looking bevel.
The problem I find it gives is that you have to continue with the tricks.

I admit I prefer an even bevel but not all razors are perfect, far from it.
But it's less than fun to get a razor for sharpening with what looks like a perfect bevel,
a quick touch up and it's done... not so!
Becourse someone used one layer of tape on the spine ( two layers on the tip), honed it with a light finger pressure 3/4 in from the heel and...
Nice tricks, and sure looks good but as a tool you didn't help with further service of it.

It's been said in these threads before and bears repeating, polishing a bevel that is not set properly is the same as polishing a turd!!! useless endeaver!!

IMO,

tinkersd