Help Finishing a Warped TI

After reading the SRP Wiki and numerous search results, I'm still a little stumped here. A friend asked me to refinish a TI he bought, hone it and put new scales on it. I put scales on it, and when I started honing the razor, I noticed the bevel wouldn't set in the middle. After using my loupe and marker test, I noticed the middle of one side of the blade wasn't getting hit. The blade rocked on one side and wouldn't remove the marker line in the middle on the other. I started out without tape, but seeing the amount of honing I was going to have to do, I added a piece of tape to the spine. I'm using a Norton 1k to set the bevel and the Naniwa 3k, 5k, 8k, 12k and CrO3. I am using a rolling x-stroke on the convex side with success; however, I've tried a 45 degree heel forward cant on the concave side but it still won't hit the very middle unless I put a little pressure on the middle of the blade at the edge with my off hand (indicated under loupe and a marker test). I've been able to get the heel and toe to shave well; however, I can't get the middle sharper than what I've been able to do at the 8k level on a bad day. If I torque the concave side to hit the middle then the heel and toe loose their finished sharpness.

My general question is: how do I finish this warped blade?

Is there any other way to finish the middle of the blade without using extra pressure with my off hand?

You can't reprofile the edge to bring the middle in line with the heel and toe, can you?

Attached are some crappy pictures to indicate the uneven bevel wear.

Attachment 131593Attachment 131594

Thanks in advance

The least aggressive way would be to use 2 layers of tape and reset the bevel completely so see what you could get, or you could try to even the spine out if it's not too uneven. I would try 2 layers of tape before trying to go to more drastic measures. If it gets sharp and shaves well, then he'll just have to stick with two layers, but the size of the bevel is more cosmetic and can be overlooked as long as it will hone and shave. Just my $.02

Do yourself a favor, send it out to a pro to be straightened and the bevels set.

I gave up on trying fancy dance moves on warped razors, and now have a set of stones that are convex instead of flat. It takes a very gentle hand, and soft stroke, but it works for me.

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Originally Posted by jbtusa

Do yourself a favor, send it out to a pro to be straightened and the bevels set.

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I got the bevels set with pressure, I just can't finish it because the middle of the concave side won't touch without a slight bit of pressure and that seems to stall the edge at a level prior to finishing. Believe me, if I can't get this one soon, I already warned him that he may have to send it out to someone else to finish.

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Originally Posted by Magpie

I gave up on trying fancy dance moves on warped razors, and now have a set of stones that are convex instead of flat. It takes a very gentle hand, and soft stroke, but it works for me.

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Ha, I certainly don't plan on finishing that many warped razors to customize my stones to them...but I can see how that would work for one side.

Start not tape to fix the spine till the bevel starts to contact the hone. Then you can add tape to finish the job.
I find this the most economical way. If the over grind is not big you can use tape and skip the spine fixing part.

Stefan, what do you mean by "over grind?"

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Originally Posted by K37

Stefan, what do you mean by "over grind?"

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Where you do not have bevel the steel has a dip , it was ground more than the rest of the blade.
Another possibility, that I did not think of initially, is the blade is not straight and the middle does not touch the stone, you can check that by laying on a flat surface.

My first dovo was like this. I honed it on 325 dmt 600 1200. To set the bevel. Its a shame a brand new razor is made like this. But to me if it doesn't shave, its useless.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

Where you do not have bevel the steel has a dip , it was ground more than the rest of the blade.
Another possibility, that I did not think of initially, is the blade is not straight and the middle does not touch the stone, you can check that by laying on a flat surface.

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The bevel doesn't sit flat when I'm honing on one side...ie. the middle is raised on one side just slightly so I have to apply a little pressure to get it to touch the hone and on the reverse side, I have to roll around that spot to hit the rest of the edge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by K37

The bevel doesn't sit flat when I'm honing on one side...ie. the middle is raised on one side just slightly so I have to apply a little pressure to get it to touch the hone and on the reverse side, I have to roll around that spot to hit the rest of the edge.

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So then the razor is not straight?

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Originally Posted by bill3152

My first dovo was like this. I honed it on 325 dmt 600 1200. To set the bevel. Its a shame a brand new razor is made like this. But to me if it doesn't shave, its useless.

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Were you grinding down the bevel or the spine to get it to touch flat on both sides?

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Originally Posted by K37

Were to grinding down the bevel or the spine to get it to touch flat on both sides?

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The way I see it you have two options for the side where the middle does not touch the hone.
You can try x stroke 45* heel forward but you have to draw the razor all the way out till the very toe. If this works you do not have to do anything to the spine.
The other option is start honing with no tape till you form bevel in the middle.
The other side will work with rolling x-stroke I think.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

So then the razor is not straight?

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The blade seems warped in the middle. The bevel in the middle is wider on one side and very thin on the other side. The thin bevel side won't touch the hone in the middle on a 45 degree cant and will only touch when a little pressure is applied behind the edge on that side. The other side rocks and I can hit fine with a rolling stroke.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

The way I see it you have two options for the side where the middle does not touch the hone.
You can try x stroke 45* heel forward but you have to draw the razor all the way out till the very toe. If this works you do not have to do anything to the spine.
The other option is start honing with no tape till you form bevel in the middle.
The other side will work with rolling x-stroke I think.

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I see what you're saying here I think....thank you...I'll try that one. It seems like adding another layer of tape might help from what others are saying as well.

A blade like that should never have left the factory in my opinion, bad QC.
Got a Dovo coming that has to be sharpened again, it has the same problem.
I was the first person to hone it after it left with it's "shave ready" Dovo edge and man, I can tell you,
I do not like to take a brand new blade to the DMT hones but he wanted it flat sided for easy honing so I had too.
He's beginner honer and if I would have used a narrow hone and some tricks, he would be in trouble later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by K37

The bevel doesn't sit flat when I'm honing on one side...ie. the middle is raised on one side just slightly so I have to apply a little pressure to get it to touch the hone and on the reverse side, I have to roll around that spot to hit the rest of the edge.

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The razor will not sit flat on a wide stone so no point in using the whole stone to hone it, unless the warp is so minor that you can flatten the spine out enough to deal with it. Thing is, sometimes the warp is in the edge & not the spine.

Draw a pencil line 1" away & parallel from the edge of your hone & only hone on that area. You will need to rock & roll your x stroke to make contact but at 1k you should get both sides to meet altho the bevel width will vary.
Make sure the edge of your stone is smooth & chamfered also. Can you visualise what I mean ? The toe of the razor will make little if any contact with the opposite side of the stone.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

The razor will not sit flat on a wide stone so no point in using the whole stone to hone it, unless the warp is so minor that you can flatten the spine out enough to deal with it. Thing is, sometimes the warp is in the edge & not the spine.

Draw a pencil line 1" away & parallel from the edge of your hone & only hone on that area. You will need to rock & roll your x stroke to make contact but at 1k you should get both sides to meet altho the bevel width will vary.
Make sure the edge of your stone is smooth & chamfered also. Can you visualise what I mean ? The toe of the razor will make little if any contact with the opposite side of the stone.

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I think I see what you're saying. Basically use the right 1/3 of the hone (I'm right handed) and use and x-stroke, right?

Yup, that's it. It's not a corrective measure but will get you a bevel.

Use decreasing pressure on the side where the middle does not touch the hone while continuing with low pressure rolling strokes on the other side.
I'm explaining better:
Start with enough pressure until the edge in the middle is formed. Gradually lower the pressure and continue. That will progressively form the edge starting from the middle towards the sides. At the end, with low pressure you will form the edge at tip and toe. If the edge shaping is not simply an arc the same principle applies, but you must be more careful to different blade areas.
Help the whole procedure with the method suggested by onimaru, in order to avoid excessive pressure and form the edge in the middle.
Stay very light with the rolling strokes on the other side, otherwise you risk to grab in the stone and damage the edge in the middle.
Good luck.

I agree with Magpie on this. You can try what the others have suggested but IMHO using a convex surface is the only effective method.

I recently got a bunch of brand new TIs to sharpen.
Can't say I was impressed of the factory bevel setting but they where somewhat sharp at least.
The edges where more polished than the Dovos.

To get on topic; some where less than straight and I just put them aside, there where no problem getting them replaced by TI.