To Go All-In or Not (Pair of W&Bs)....

Wade & Butcher Boxed Set of 2 Straight Razors - eBay (item 180424239144 end time Nov-03-09 19:15:57 PST)

As for disclosure, this is not my auction and I have no idea who the seller is - but I AM thinking about winning them. The only reason I'm posting this is because after about $250 the pool of folks willing to keep bidding shrinks rapidly and most of us become spectators. Since this is past that now, I'm a spectator at the moment but since I keep looking at them I may decide to bid like I mean it. These remind me of what would be a set of mint proofs in the coin world - and I've never seen any W&Bs that look this good or that even have a style like these.

This one has been up for almost a week I think. I saw it a few hours after it was started and put in a bid just to remind me about it later. I thought my bid was about right to win it but I also realized that things may get out of hand - so I reserved a few bucks just in case I need it for this.

I have to say this LOOKS like one heck of a set of blades. The scales on one of them needs to be replaced but I still like both blades. So the question is, to go all-in and bid the moon for these or stop bidding at around double what a good W&B might go for on a good day? Man I can't stop looking at those pics! Does anyone see anything else problematic with these that I might be missing aside from the fact that we all want them?

I have been watching them for afew days trying to make up my mind. But I think the bidding might get crazy. You have to admit they are beautiful and unusual and would look great in your shave den.

Bummer about the one with the missing scale tip. Very nice razors in spite of that. I like being a spectator on things like this. All you need are two people who set head scratching high snipes.

I amuse myself in situations when something goes for a crazy high bid. I can't help but wonder that someone set a very high snipe not banking on someone else doing that same thing. Then the one who wins it goes....GULP! See, I'm smiling even typing that last sentence.

Chris L

I've been watching them since day one. They are just a couple of razors after all. OTOH, I've been fooling with razors for over 20 years and have never seen a pair like that. Referring to the grind of the blade. If things were busy at the shop I would take them home. They are just a couple of minty W&Bs but if you really want them go for it because you may never see a set like that again. Plan on going $500 or better I would bet.

They are attractive razors. On first look they look pristine but I can't believe the survived in this condition since 1850. On closer look there are two shots that show they were 'restored'. The shot of the spine that shows the stamp has polishing compound in the grove. The shot of the tail tells all. If you look close you can see where the polished area meets the older finish. The scales were broke during the restore. Polishing the blade would remove the black in the stamps so they were re-colored with what? The edges look uneven. What other damage was done during restore that is not apparent? If you plan on willing this set I would ask the seller a lot more questions and not expect the absolute truth.

As for the broken scale, I would look for another razor with similar scales and a bad blade or the opposite side broken to replace it in original material if I got the set.

Even if I had the money to bid on this set, which I don't, I would have reservations. Unique? Yes. Quality may be questionable. I would not have a problem with a high bid if they were not restored and damaged during the restore.

Good luck.

Great observation Joed! Something I didn't put in the post above was that I DID ask a few questions about the other blade the seller has up for auction (A Keen Kutter) and here's the answer I got:

"The width is 5/8", not that it's necessary to measure a dead mint razor."

WTF?!?!?! It took me a few minutes to get my head back on straight and to not slam him hard. So a little later I wrote back and apologized to the guy for being inconsiderate and bothering him with questions. :-) My guess is that the seller simply sees dollar signs - but he does seem to have an unnatural opinion of something.

Anyway, based on what you guys are seeing, as well as the responses I've gotten from the seller - and some new issues I picked up on after looking more closely at the photos I'm not bidding any higher - have fun with this one guys, I'm out!

screw that!

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Originally Posted by Ichinichi

screw that!

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Seconded, especially when they say "The width is 5/8", not that it's necessary to measure a dead mint razor." When they aren't 'dead mint'

Think I'd rather try to get a couple of NOS filies etc. and source a nice case for them.

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Originally Posted by AirColorado

Great observation Joed! Something I didn't put in the post above was that I DID ask a few questions about the other blade the seller has up for auction (A Keen Kutter) and here's the answer I got:

"The width is 5/8", not that it's necessary to measure a dead mint razor."

WTF?!?!?! It took me a few minutes to get my head back on straight and to not slam him hard. So a little later I wrote back and apologized to the guy for being inconsiderate and bothering him with questions. :-) My guess is that the seller simply sees dollar signs - but he does seem to have an unnatural opinion of something.

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Next time consider a back handed compliment like "Thank you for your reply! Based on the sentiment in your reply I decided to take a closer look at your item and have found anomalies in the item that you are unwilling to disclose. Hence I will be withdrawing my bid and placing you on my blocked sellers list. I was just about to place an extremely high bid on this item and you reply has shown me that my money would be better spent on a different item. May the gods bless you." Something like that should wake them up an return them to the real world.

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Originally Posted by Joed

Next time consider a back handed compliment like "Thank you for your reply! Based on the sentiment in your reply I decided to take a closer look at your item and have found anomalies in the item that you are unwilling to disclose. Hence I will be withdrawing my bid and placing you on my blocked sellers list. I was just about to place an extremely high bid on this item and you reply has shown me that my money would be better spent on a different item. May the gods bless you." Something like that should wake them up an return them to the real world.

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Doubt they'd give a monkeys tbh.. When the time approaches zero there'll always be a few folks dumb enough to forget the value of money..

Brother that's just too damned good to NOT use! He'll see my W&B bid for $260 and my generous bid on the Keen Kutter as well. Think I'll cancel the Keen Kutter bid and not bid anything higher on the W&Bs - and send him the words below as I do it. :-)

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Originally Posted by Joed

Next time consider a back handed compliment like "Thank you for your reply! Based on the sentiment in your reply I decided to take a closer look at your item and have found anomalies in the item that you are unwilling to disclose. Hence I will be withdrawing my bid and placing you on my blocked sellers list. I was just about to place an extremely high bid on this item and you reply has shown me that my money would be better spent on a different item. May the gods bless you." Something like that should wake them up an return them to the real world.

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Done! The more I thought about this the less I wanted either razor. Bid retracted on the KeenKutter and no more bids will be entered on the W&Bs (I was just outbid anyway). The note I sent him was almost verbatim what you came up with - so I guess I'll be on his blocked bidder list now as well - as my wife used to say when we were in LA - "WHATEVER!" :-) Thanks for saving me about $450 guys!

Excellent eye, Joed! I thought it too good to be true myself, but didn't look closely or put the broken tip together as a failed restore. Agreed that "mint" and ANY restoration have no place together in reference, period. If I had the inclination I'd watch this seller for run to see if most or all of his razors are sold as "mint". It would be nice to know this. Not like we could "shut him down", but again, it would be nice to know.

Chris L

So? What happened? How high did it go? I am at work and can't open ebay....:confused:

amazing... someone bid $666 and another guy sniped it in the last 5 seconds for $666.66. I am so curious to see how the guy that came up on second place feels abut that... he lost it by 0.66$. This was clearly the highest bid of the winner. That must hurt... man o man ... I am so glad I am not that guy that lost it by 66 cents... or maybe he is just happy that he saved $666... anyway congrats to the winner for these rare, handsome set.

Just a guess, but I'd guess by tomorrow the "loser" be extremely relieved! There are nice lookers and nice shavers and sometimes both in the same package. Even though these were pretty good looking, they were in no way mint, so to me they're not worth $333.33 each. But the old adage about what the market will bear certainly applies. To someone that pair was worth the price. I sure hope the guy still thinks the same thing next week when they arrive. Heck I'd have paid $300 for the pair - but not $600 - just the eye (and wallet) of the beholder.

Thanks guys. I knew I had been outbid but not by how much.

I don't know that I am relieved that I didn't win, as I would have loved those razors in my rotation.

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Originally Posted by ZethLent

Thanks guys. I knew I had been outbid but not by how much.

I don't know that I am relieved that I didn't win, as I would have loved those razors in my rotation.

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You ware number 2, outbid by just 66 cents?

Ouch - Seth that hurts from here dude!!!! I can feel the pain! Really. But look at it this way, now we both have some funds available for one of those 8000 model strops from JimR or a down-payment on a nice big Nakayama. You'll probably find something now that costs about that much that you'll like even more. That's what I tell myself when I miss an auction by less than a full bid - and 9 out of 10 times it happens.

If it helps I have 4 of those blades - not with the frame layer looking like that of course, but they're still the W&B framebacks. I've been restoring them off and on for a few months as I get time and the inclination (waiting for Max to get to me). Still looking for 3 more in good structural shape to make a full set. Once I get one done, scaled up, and honed I'll send it to you for a test run if you like - just PM me.

So - who here won them? It HAS to be one of us - who else would drop that much on them? I'm starting to get "non-buyers remorse" for not following through and bidding to win them in the first place. I was pretty well torqued about the "mint" thing but they're still darned good looking. Ah that's just the RAD talking....

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Originally Posted by justacat

You ware number 2, outbid by just 66 cents?

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:rock: 666 :rock:

I have been looking for a set like that for a long time.

Looks like I'll just have to wait for the next one...:gwh:

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Originally Posted by ZethLent

I have been looking for a set like that for a long time.

Looks like I'll just have to wait for the next one...:gwh:

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Maybe the guy that bought it will read this post and seeing that you want it so bad maybe he will sell it to you for the same price, or maybe you can tempt him with a trade or something. That actually may be a good idea so why not post here a list or some sort of items that you will trade to the winner of that auction for that set. Just an idea...:idea:

Blimey - a fair few quid..
Maybe it wasn't a lot for a pair inc. box (£400 odd in GBP) as pairs of things often fetch far more that the cost pf two separate sngle items if they are packaged as a colectable pair in a case/box etc. It may be easier to find two identicle W&B in similar condition for less but ot wouldn't be the same (for a collector anyway). Wonder how much the box alone would fetch - that would add value to a pair of matching blades and maybe that alone is what raised the price?

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Originally Posted by Yorkie

Blimey - a fair few quid..
Maybe it wasn't a lot for a pair inc. box (£400 odd in GBP) as pairs of things often fetch far more that the cost pf two separate sngle items if they are packaged as a colectable pair in a case/box etc. It may be easier to find two identicle W&B in similar condition for less but ot wouldn't be the same (for a collector anyway). Wonder how much the box alone would fetch - that would add value to a pair of matching blades and maybe that alone is what raised the price?

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There is another thread around about round points. I made the point (no pun intended) that they shave good but they just don't look cool. If those two W&Bs had been round points with normal spines and stampings they would have been lucky to bring $150. Those two razors looked cool. The grinds and the stampings were very unusual. Not your garden variety Sheffield wedge. I didn't bid because biz is really slow down here. Had I gone for them I would have maxed out at $500 so I wouldn't have got them anyway but I would have loved to have them.

Let's not forget the scales... I believe those scales are real ivory. Am I in error here? Did anyone here actually asked the seller about those scales?

Yeah he said they're ivory in so many words (natural or something similar to avoid having PITA or whoever pressuring Ebay to remove them) - but one scale was busted so that took the value down for me. Especially since he didn't have the piece that broke off - not a chip, a good chunk of it, like a third.

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Originally Posted by AirColorado

Yeah he said they're ivory in so many words (natural or something similar to avoid having PITA or whoever pressuring Ebay to remove them) - but one scale was busted so that took the value down for me. Especially since he didn't have the piece that broke off - not a chip, a good chunk of it, like a third.

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It will be a pity if the winner will not replace that broken scale, since you can still find pre-ban ivory. Anyone has any idea on how much replacing that scale will cost, I am quite curious what will be the actual final cost for this set to have it in perfect shape.

So someone polished up the blades nice and the handle material is now subject to trade embargoes. Almost $700? W.C. Fields had a saying....

Justacat I as thinking that when I place my early bid. I assumed replacement would run about $200 but that's just a really wild estimate - based upon exactly nothing. So you're correct in that the $666.66 will have to be augmented with the required 2-way shipping to the restoration guru, as well as the cost of ivory and the time spent to match it and make it. That assumes that one can find ivory that's the same color. Otherwise the cost goes up as the new owner has to pay for a complete new set of scales - or, if they want a matching set, TWO pairs of scales. Hey... ...I wonder if Max was the winner of these? He could do that himself.... :-)

Hmm, from that ere what are the chances they will be made from whalebone?

I'd bet PITA, PUTA, whatever they're called would have a fit but I sure would like some old whalebone scales with a bit of scrimshaw on them! Now you've got me thinking... I wonder if the humane society or forestry service or zoo would consider tossing some ole' bones my way now and then? I looked briefly but couldn't find a thread about getting discarded moose or other wild animal bones from some organization that has to dispose of them. I don't need much, maybe a rib or two? Any of you guys ever try to make scales with bones or horn from roadkill? I've read quite a few bits from people that use roadkill for material to use in tying fishing flies. Not sure I'd go with real roadkill, but a rib or two from the forestry service might be good...

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Originally Posted by Yorkie

Hmm, from that ere what are the chances they will be made from whalebone?

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Ok you guys I am coming front with this. I got the set. I am sorry ZethLent for getting it from you by only 66 cents. In case anyone here cares the broken one will get a rescale for sure. I am now trying to see who has ivory available and the skills to work on this so any suggestions are welcome. Max will be my first option I just need to see if he has ivory available. I am also sending him 3 more that I recently got. One is the famous Lifetime grim reaper and one is a crazy one called josh mappin lancet also an otto will be on it's way to Max soon. Here are the ebay item numbers to all of them in case you wish to see them. (sorry I've tried to put links but it's not working)

DD Lifetime grim reaper: Item number: 270478125325

the josh mappin lancet: Item number: 110447278474

the OTTO DUETSCH: Item number: 190343152064

and I am thinking this duck with clack scales to: Item number: 120487936758

Man you have the RAD for sure !. I must say the Mappin is a cool blade and I am halfway jealous on that W&B set regardess of the price and any issues with it ..... and the Lifetime.... I paid $100 for mine and it is in real good condition but I bet you stole that one and it is slightly better than mine. :) Yer doin' very well in your RAD.:tu

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Originally Posted by justacat

Ok you guys I am coming front with this. I got the set. I am sorry ZethLent for getting it from you by only 66 cents. In case anyone here cares the broken one will get a rescale for sure. I am now trying to see who has ivory available and the skills to work on this so any suggestions are welcome. Max will be my first option I just need to see if he has ivory available. I am also sending him 3 more that I recently got. One is the famous Lifetime grim reaper and one is a crazy one called josh mappin lancet also an otto will be on it's way to Max soon. Here are the ebay item numbers to all of them in case you wish to see them. (sorry I've tried to put links but it's not working)

DD Lifetime grim reaper: Item number: 270478125325

the josh mappin lancet: Item number: 110447278474

the OTTO DUETSCH: Item number: 190343152064

and I am thinking this duck with clack scales to: Item number: 120487936758

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Why all the deception?

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Originally Posted by ZethLent

Why all the deception?

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Because as Jimmy says RAD is my middle name and I am buying from some of the guys here and I am always complaining about business going slow and always try to get a good price on an item that I am buying from the classifieds and now that you guys know that I am willing to pay some money if I find an item that I like you won't negotiate with me anymore on those great razors that some of you have for sale on classifieds. I am sorry for the "deception" but I thought about it and I already have pretty much everything I want so I now rarely buy another razor and it is no fun in having such a nice set if you can not share the joy with guys that are as crazy as you about razors. I've been trying to celebrate this winning with my GF but I don't know why she was not very excited to hear me talking to her about a set of W&B if you know what I mean.

I do have one question for you guys, when did you last time saw a puma gold for sale on classifieds or ebay? I am looking for 6/8 since I've started this ... which is not so long ago as you can see from my registration date.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Man you have the RAD for sure !. I must say the Mappin is a cool blade and I am halfway jealous on that W&B set regardess of the price and any issues with it ..... and the Lifetime.... I paid $100 for mine and it is in real good condition but I bet you stole that one and it is slightly better than mine. :) Yer doin' very well in your RAD.:tu

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Jimmy you are right, I have RAD, HAD, SAD, BAD, I have them all and I love it. The thing with the grim reaper is that it's not really important what I paid for it, which BTW as more than you paid for your but not much more, but the thing is that this will go to Max so this will add I believe around $100 to the price to make it perfect and if that is not enough, after I got this one and after looking through all the other ducks that I have I decided to try to make a complete DD collection so I will pay for a long time because I got this Grim Reaper, but it will be fun to hunt all those ducks down. Anyone here owning a not so common ducky feel free to pm me. Thank you

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Originally Posted by justacat

Because as Jimmy says RAD is my middle name and I am buying from some of the guys here and I am always complaining about business going slow and always try to get a good price on an item that I am buying from the classifieds and now that you guys know that I am willing to pay some money if I find an item that I like you won't negotiate with me anymore on those great razors that some of you have for sale on classifieds. I am sorry for the "deception" but I thought about it and I already have pretty much everything I want so I now rarely buy another razor and it is no fun in having such a nice set if you can not share the joy with guys that are as crazy as you about razors. I've been trying to celebrate this winning with my GF but I don't know why she was not very excited to hear me talking to her about a set of W&B if you know what I mean.

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Fair enough. I guess congratulations are in order. You may have a one of a kind set.

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Originally Posted by justacat

Jbut it will be fun to hunt all those ducks down. Anyone here owning a not so common ducky feel free to pm me. Thank you

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If you ease up and be patient you will eventually get what you are looking for cheaper than if you go at it hammer and tongs and it will be much more satisfying in the long run. Just IME with one AD after another. :)

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Originally Posted by ZethLent

Fair enough. I guess congratulations are in order. You may have a one of a kind set.

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Thanks man and I hope our bids will not meet again on that 7 day set, I think you know which I am talking about, I am sure you found it already. Tell you what if we are both bidding on that let's flip a coin and one of us retreat from there because we will only make each other mad. The one who will get it will feel like he paid to much for it and the one that will loose it will just fell... sad. What you say?
P.S. Please excuse my poor english :P... one of the reasons that kept me away from posting until recently