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I was browsing one of the Japanese knife stores, which also happens to sell Japanese razors, and stumbled on this one:
IWASAKI Western Style Razor 75mm Tamahagane Blade,#1800.6
pretty high price , my question to the folks that live in Japan is is this normal or too inflated?
the guy also has a pretty nice collection of palm sized Nakayama Maruka stones for those that are interested.
He is based in Hawaii so shipping is fast.
I enjoyed that a great deal. Thank you for the link
Those are all old stock, used, from a barber shop in Japan. There are no new ones being made, to my knowledge--I haven't seen any new ones. The one a few months ago that went for 1500 or so was NOS--found in storage somewhere.
I paid considerably less for mine, and it was in similar condition.
For what it is worth, I have purchased other razors from this seller, Takeshi Aoki, and he is an excellent person to deal with -- an honorable gentleman in every sense. I heard about these tamahagane razors from him last month when he was waiting to receive them from Japan. Apparently, there are only three of them, and I don't know enough about them to say whether the price is fair or not for what he is selling. From the photos I saw, they were all in good to excellent condition, but not NOS. Even at that price, I was soooo tempted to take the plunge, but what kept me back is the same psychological problem I have with all super, super expensive razors, which is a fear that I will damage the blade while using it and so I won't end up using the razor at all!
One interesting thing Takeshi told me too -- apparently, the source he has in Japan ALSO has a tamahagane western straight razor make by KOSUKE IWASAKI himself!! Now, that probably isn't going to mean much to too many people, but from what I understand from those who follow this stuff, that's like having an original Van Gogh or something similar. God only knows what it would cost to purchase something like that, probably more than my car is worth.
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Originally Posted by JeffE
Ahhhh...that pretty much confirms it. He bought his from the same place I got mine. The seller told me someone in America had bought some of his others, and the ones on aframestokyo are all in similar condition to mine, and the seller said he was only keeping two razors, and one of them was a Tamahagane made by Kousuke.
Now THAT is a rare razor...
I would want more than plain , black plastic scales for that kind of money .:thinking: I would think that if the blade is so special , that the razor would have an awesome set of scales .:confused:
Tamahagane @ HRC ~67, if I understand the properties of the steel correctly, that might prove as tough as a wedge to set a bevel, but then the edge retention would be phenomenal. I hope Jim tells us if at least the edge retention part is true?Quote:
Originally Posted by dave5225
He stopped making western style straights because the machine to make the handles was broken ? Yeah , right . :rolleyes:
They could be lacquered wooden scales, that would be more "Japanese" and would look the same in the photos.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave5225
When you buy one of those razors, you aren't buying scales. Ever heard the term "gilding the lily"?
Tamahagane is not necessarily harder. It all depends on the heat treatment. For a katana I thought the rule of thumb was 60-40. 60 HRC for the cutting edge and 40 for the spine.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
67 would be virtually impossible to hone, and extremely brittle on a hollow ground razor. So has a knife or cutter that is HRC 67. IIRC he called it virtually defective. It was nearly impossible to hone and very brittle so the edge would crumble away when used incorrectly. I doubt a razors edge on 67 HRC would last long (if you could get it shaveready).
Yes this might or might not be true (I know there are traditional Japanese knives hardened to HRC67 which do not chip at all). I was hoping someone that owns one of those razors will fill us inQuote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I have 2 "plain" Iwasaki as well as other Japanese razors-I had no problem selling the Livi ( Japanese inspired ). Having a worked spine and ostentatious decor does not amount to an orgasmic shave-nor does having stag horn scales or MOP. I'm more function over fashion. To each his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave5225
http://straightrazorpalace.com/japan...amahagane.html
They will probably not chip due to having a wide bevel angle and absence of a hollow grind. And even then they will probably chip if used incorrectly, where a 'softer' knife will be more forgiving.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
Knives chip fairly easy if you are not careful, even when sharpening. That is not the point, I was just looking for confirmation or dismissal of the assumption, that based on the info given by the vendor, the razor will be very hard to sharpen and will hold the edge longer. I am inclined to think that if indeed the hardness is 67, the razor smith knew what they were doing and the razor would not chip. I agree that such hardness leads to very brittle steel, and there is a ton of exmples. Also, although the vendor is very reputable, the info on the hardness is second hand at best, he says the hardness is 67, but he got the number from the seller in Japan so not much credibility there. I was hoping someone with experience with those razors would tell us what is the real deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
All I can tell you is this: This razor was a bitch to hone. It took FOREVER, and I wasn't even setting a bevel--just smoothing out an edge I bunged up when polishing the blade.
Honing on heavy slurry, it took much more than twice as long as any other razor I've honed to see any darkening (a sign of steel being removed) and the slurry never got as dark as with other razors. And it took several honing rounds to get the edge to where I wanted it. But it's there now...for how long, I have no idea. Ask me in 1032 shaves. ;)
As for 67rhc, well, I'm pretty sure the seller got the razor from a retired barber (it sounds very much like the same place I got mine...) so I'm wondering how much that barber knows about the Rockwell scale.
If I recall correctly from my sword as religion days; tamahagane is thought to be better suited to high hardness than other simple carbon steel (in general)
It appears completely reasonable that such statements arose from Iwasaki's work. At 67 though? Surely only suited to razors.
Now I wonder what our English and American ironmongers would('ve) say to this thing about German steel being the one to beat!?
I talked to tool seller about tamahagane planes some time back, as he had a couple for sale. Regarding edge retention he said it would be similar to white steel to very good Swedish steel.
It is interesting that Iwasaki chose the razor to show what Jp steel could do.
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Originally Posted by Bruno
Maybe. Different steels will take different levels of hardness without getting brittle. I've got an O1 blade from Robt Williams that is 65HRC and shaves and hold an edge fine, and had a stainless blade that would chip against my whiskers at only 64HRC.
I'm not sure how relevant So's knife is. It may well be that a tamahagane knife would be too brittle at 67 HRC while a razor would not be. Many western-made razors are much harder than knives of the same vintage, and are extremely brittle and will utterly shatter if dropped on the floor, yet shave and hold and edge extremely well.
I was playing with my western-styled tamahagane razor the other day and it's very hard indeed. Not sure how hard exactly, but it seems to be harder than my 65HRC Robt Williams razor. A few years ago I took my Chronik to a local lab for Rockwell testing but I'm not terribly interested in getting my tamahagane razor onto a tester, since the rib on mine is too small to test on, it's very thin and vestigial like the TI Silverwing, so they'd have to test it on the blade itself and that's just asking for trouble. Maybe if I had two of them...
The resulting 'ting' or 'click' would probably be the most gutwrenching sound you'd ever hear :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mparker762
Just received a western Iwasaki from So for a cleanup. Should be fun.
The box has a marking on it reading HV 860. This is a hardness rating based on the Vickers scale & corresponds to HRC 65. It is no myth that these are hard steel.
mparker , maybe you have a similar marking on your one's box
...still thinking of a devious plan to get that beautiful razor into my grubby mitts Oz... It is a gorgeous thing!
LOL...Butters ! I can see we may yet cross swords.:tameshigiri:Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMarx
But you'll have to convince So ... & he ain't sellin' :p