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Gotta say they look an awful lot like Tam O Shanter stones.
VINTAGE DARK GREEN CHARNLEY FOREST SHARPENING STONE!!! | eBay
VINTAGE LIGHT GREEN CHARNLEY FOREST SHARPENING STONE!!! | eBay
Maybe they could be Lynn Idwals, but I really don't think they are CF's. Though identifying CF can be a guessing game quite often.
Do not look anything like the Charnleys I have seen. At all. No reddish striation through the stone for starters. Mystery greek stone more like it!
They are not CF's for sure. They're the swirly speckled stones from the UK that are either some type of ToS or Llyn Idwal. The opinions differ and I don't know who is right :D
I don't find mine nearly as fine as my CF's.
I wonder if bacchus7-2007 knows they're not CF's. He routinely puts Guangxis for sale as (vintage) unnamed finishers in between vintage stones.
This begs the question--were UK stones exported all over Europe? I find it curious all of these UK stones are turning up in Greece. Obviously, this is a situation where one wants to be cautious. But, there might be something good there. Perhaps the seller has contacts with lots of old time barbers???
I was looking at these two items earlier today. Now, I don't know much about charnley's, but even I was sitting at the computer thinking "hmmm I don't see any of the red that people are talking about....."
Not ALL Charnleys have red/purple in them, however the majority do. Those don't look like CFs that I have seen, and I have seen a few, multiples of 10. There are a few stones that look like that, including Arks, Tam O'Shanters and Idwalls. It is impossible to say from only a picture but I think they are likely specimens of the latter.
I have indeed seen that seller successfully sell PHIGs under 'vintage whatevers.' I wouldn't trust him because of this and his misrepresentation of the CFs. Not to defame the seller but often his hones are just listed as 'ultra fine,' and in responses to my queries I have received 'ultra fine!!!! You will not be disappointed!!!!!' with as many exclamations as that, of which I infer that the seller really has little clue if any about what he is selling.
If you haven't purchased from him, it doesn't quite seem fair to call his honesty into question. I have purchased one of his Charnley Forest hones, and he offered to take the hone back for a full refund if I wasn't satisfied. Regarding whether the stone is a Charnley or something else, mine was represented to be a Charnley, and it looks just like another of the "plain green" Charnleys that I bought from another source. The stone does NOT have the dramatic red spots or stripes that some Charnleys have, but I think even Neil Miller agrees that the plain green Charnleys are still Charnleys. The hone also polishes and finishes like a Charnley, so I didn't return it and I wouldn't consider selling it either. It's a great hone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio
Is it possible that the stone is a TOS? I don't see that as a possibility, as the surface detail looks completely different and the hone is a much, much finer grit than any TOS I've ever seen. Is it possible that the stone is a Llyn Idwall? That's at least possible in my view because the grain structure and grit of the two stones are similar, although my Llyn Idwall from another source is a completely different color (dark grey rather than light green).
I don't know what to say about the number of exclamation points he uses in emails, but I don't think that's necessarily a good reason to doubt the guy's honesty, especially if he's selling stones successfully to so many people, including me.
I bought a paddle of him once, and there were no issues. Those however, are not Charnleys therefore this is not libel in respect of words calculated to disparage the seller in any profession, trade or business held or carried by him for it is fair comment. I hold this opinion as those are not Charnleys, neither is there any malice on my behalf. I have seen many Charnleys, of both the drab green variety (though lesser so) that is referred to in Neil's literature, in addition to the more commonly red striped or blotched specimens. I know what I am talking about, and do not negligently or recklessly write to defame others, neither will I advise as to an issue that I can not support with facts or a qualified opinion. This is misrepresentation and as a member here who has likely seen more Charnleys in real life as opposed to pictures than many, I wish to look out for fellow SRP members who may be fooled by the seller.
No big deal, and no offense intended. I had a great experience dealing with him, and he seemed to be honest and willing to give refunds. What I bought from him happens to be a great hone and, in my opinion, is a CF. If you say he's a crook and the stone is not a Charnley, that's ok with me too. It happens to be very easy in this forum to make accusations without much evidence and a lot harder to respond to them, so I just wanted to point out that this seller is entitled to a fair shake, at least until someone comes forward with some evidence that he's not what he says. That's all I wanted to offer, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio
I never said he was a 'crook.' That's a very strong word, and you have no reason to infer it either. Fraud requires a requisite intention, and that I doubt he has. The PHIGs he sold as 'vintage whatevers,' he may well have acquired from a Pakistani market as private correspondence between him and myself confirmed. I believe he is mistaken to those hones being Charnleys as they are green and likely to be above an 8K polish, whether they are Tams or Idwalls. He could well be mistaken, but I am not. A mistaken seller is not a crook, they simply are negligent, as are you for inferring and subsequently publicising that I deem him to be so. The fact that he is offering refunds is fair and I hope that if someone does happen to purchase a stone from him under the illusion it is something that it is not because of representations he has made, that they will either enjoy the stone if it happens to be as great as he claims (all of them are 'ultra fine!!!!!!') or he will indeed issue a refund.
I probably bought the Guangxi of the auction Scipio is referring to because he posted the question with answer. It was advertised as a vintage stone which looked greenish in the pictures and had dark veins. As soon as I bought it he put up another one as BIN with the same pictures. I figured it was possible he cut a thick CF or worst case scenario another interesting vintage stone in half. So I bought that one as well.
As soon as opened the parcel they were obvious Guangxis. They also had circular saw marks no vintage stone has. So even if he didn't know they were Guangxis there was no chance someone with a little knowledge of hones could have mistaken these for vintage. He always takes pictures of the stones completely wet so you can't see the saw marks.
I returned them for a refund. I feel somewhat ashamed for falling for his scheme. This was just before people started posting pics of their veined Guangxis, bad timing. Anyway because I have dealt with him I can say that bacchus7-2007 is imho a total fraud, he can not be trusted. The fact he offers full refund if not happy is his failsafe for getting a bad rep. I explained to him these were Guangxis, however he continued to post them as unnamed ultrafine!!!!! hones for razors.
The two stones mentioned in the op are of a type often mistaken for CFs so it's possible bacchus7-2007 didn't know any better.
I am glad it sounds like you did get a CF, JeffE. I would like a closer look though :)
Thanks, Piet, that's useful information, and I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with him. I don't particularly care to defend someone who is giving bad products to members here, and it seems like you have good reason to complain. This is not your situation, but it does bother me sometimes when members here just label a seller as a fraud or scam artist without any basis for making that accusation. It's an easy accusation to make, and there's typically no one here who can say otherwise, so the seller just becomes known as a fraud by default.
Just out of curiosity, did you leave negative feedback for this seller on eBay? Because I always check out a seller's feedback closely before bidding, and this seller's feedback looked excellent.
Regarding my stone, it really does look most like a CF, and I have another CF to compare it to. If it's not a CF, I'd be confident in saying that the stone is some kind of Llyn Idwall, mostly because the grain structure looks so similar. Anyway, thanks for the info.
I didn't leave negative feedback because I was refunded and didn't want to receive bad comments in return from him. It would also have been hard to prove to ebay bacchus7-2007 knew the stones were cheap Guangxis and not vintage.
It did cost me shipping costs to Greece for returning the stones, but I was already glad it didn't cost me more. I will try my best to prevent others from making the same mistake.
They look remarkably like tam o'shanter hones to me.
Regards,
Neil
I've received one of this stones from Greece and I can confirm is not a CF, is a TOS, the seller including another stone for free because he know wasn't a CF, he says the other stone is a Thuri, but I'm not sure of that,maybe can be a Welsh slate. Anyway I think bacchus play with this, he knows very well what he sales. He offer to refund me if I back the stones to him, but I'vent do it. I've leaved a positive feedback for don't compromise my feedback, but he don't receive many stars.
sellers can't leave negative feedback for buyers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushdoctor
As far as the seller I have a story too, he was selling a small thuringian the same size as the small boxed ones 5x1" but he had an Escher looking like label on the back only in blue. The label also did not say escher but the picture was exact copy. So I asked him and he confirmed it was a stone he got from Germany and the label is authentic. I won the auction and later after a while the label peeled off to reveal a greenish label that we see on thugingians. Anyway the stone is really good but he "enhanced" the looks of the item to get a few more bucks @ auction.
I know sham got one stone from him that was supposed to be escher but turned out to be far from it so it was returned.
I should note that I only posted this as a warning knowing full well they weren't CFs and more than likely were TOS's. Just didn't want anyone not knowing what to look for in a CF dropping serious coin on a TOS stone. I also didn't want it to get into any vendor bashing, which seems to be the way the thread has turned. Just wanted it to be a heads up to know what to look for before taking a gamble on anything on eBay. This seller actually has sold genuine CFs in the past, these just aren't them from the looks of the pictures.
it doesn't look like CF.
i have deal with that seller and he did refund the money.