Why do sellers intentionally mislead buyers?

Earlier this week, I was browsing eBay and found a really nice looking Kinfolk's Blue Steel Special. The price was reasonable and it looked to be in really nice condition. By really nice, I mean it was in used condition but looked to be very well cared for.

I really like my current Kinfolk's razor so I decided I'd buy. It was a buy-it-now auction so I jumped on it.

The item arrived yesterday and I was really excited to open it, hone it, and give it a try. The only problem was... when I opened it, it was not even close to being in the condition pictured and described in the auction.

I looked over the seller's photo, comparing to the item I received and it's just indisputable that it's not the same razor. If I were to guess, the razor pictured is 6/8. It is a square point, no rust, etc, and the scales seem perfect. The razor I actually received is a 5/8 round point and the scales are that ugly faded yellow color with dark stains all over. The blade itself isn't bad but has some issues around the bevel. (basically, not a razor I'd of bought if the photo was correct)

Next, I actually "googled" Kinfolk's Blue Steel Special and found the exact photo from the auction listed on another website. Obviously the seller was too lazy to take a photo and decided that since the razors had the same markings, it was okay to use a "stock photo."

After finding this, I contacted the seller and asked for a refund (auction was listed as no returns accepted). He tells me if it's returned in the same condition, he'll refund my money. So my question was... how do I prove this? If the item I received isn't the item pictured, how can I prove that I sent it back in the same condition? (also, looking at his feedback, someone in the past left neutral feedback because the guy promised a refund after a return and it was never issued)


So, if it were you in this situation, how would you proceed? I only paid $30 for the item so it's not that I'll be broke if I return the item and never get my refund, but ideally, I'd like to have my refund before I send it back. After all, it was the seller who was deceiving, and it isn't just that I decided I didn't want the item for no legitimate reason.

A judge asked "Slick Willie Sutton" why he robbed banks ....."Because that's where the money is." was the reply. I guess they want to sell their item and they have no scruples. As for the item condition and issues, if you paid with paypal you might call them and explain the issues. Send it back with a tracking # and if the guy claims it wasn't in the same condition proceed with a claim through paypal.

If your trying to determine size from the pic only,thats nutz,I sell alot of blades on the bay,size is always posted as I measure it.Do not think you were decieved.

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Originally Posted by ats200

So, if it were you in this situation, how would you proceed?

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I would wonder why I wasn't a little more aggressive in my initial contact with the seller, and then I'd return the razor, get my money back, file a complaint and leave negative feedback. Not out of spite but in an effort to reduce the number of people who are ripped off by the seller in the future

Unless I thought I could resell it for more with an even better stock photo ;)

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

If your trying to determine size from the pic only,thats nutz,I sell alot of blades on the bay,size is always posted as I measure it.Do not think you were decieved.

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Hmm, From the OP:

"If I were to guess, the razor pictured is 6/8. It is a square point, no rust, etc, and the scales seem perfect. The razor I actually received is a 5/8 round point and the scales are that ugly faded yellow color with dark stains all over. The blade itself isn't bad but has some issues around the bevel."

Regarding the size you are quite right. It is next to impossible to determine the size on it thru the pics alone.
Still, I would disagree with you on wether or not this ad was deceptive.

The point is different, Round vs square.
The condition is described as significantly different from the photos.
It seems the seller has used a stock photo instead of actual photos of the item at hand.

That is more than enough reason to proceed with a claim thru Paypal IMHO.

I would photograph the razor and make sure to keep both the listing photos and those of the razor, attempting to match the shots as much as possible so as to show there is no way it is the same razor. Then send it back and ask for my money back while also filing a claim with PP and Ebay.

The claims I have done with PayPal they actually wanted the item that was sold. You send the item to pay pal, they keep it and pull funds out of the sellers pay pal to give you your money back (usually with shipping included). This route the douch bag seller ends up being the one left out in the cold. It's been years since I've had to do one, so things might have changed. But this route sure beats sending it back to the guy hoping he gives you your money.

Would be great to see a link to said auction,than a pic of what was recieved,
That way this thread would not go on forever.pretty simple IMO.

I wonder how ebay would react if you file a dispute and give them a link to the other auction. I am sure ebay would be less than happy knowing the same item being sold on another site as well.
If I were in your shoes I would send the seller a message through ebay telling him you're not happy and why and also tell him if he does not handle the situation to your satisfaction you are going to file a complaint with ebay and paypal and let them know why you are not happy with the item and will also tell ebay and paypal about the fact he tries to sell one item twice. And tell him you will send the other auction house a mail similar to the one ebay will receive.

Good luck and keep us posted.

If you paid with PayPal they'll make sure you get your money. You just have to follow the appeal process and give the seller time to settle.

Another option instead of paying to ship it back, you can ask the seller to refund half of the funds.

Of course this is only if the razor would be worth $15.

Just my $0.02 :shrug:

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

If your trying to determine size from the pic only,thats nutz,I sell alot of blades on the bay,size is always posted as I measure it.Do not think you were decieved.

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I have to disagree. I think it's relatively simple to determine the general size of a razor through the photos. Maybe I can't see a more minute difference such as 13/16 to 7/8 but I'd say it's easy to see the basic differences in 4/8, 5/8, 6/8, etc.

Regardless of this fact, there were enough other differences described in my OP that this was indeed deception. Especially considering the photo was taken from another website.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Would be great to see a link to said auction,than a pic of what was recieved,
That way this thread would not go on forever.pretty simple IMO.

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I'm not asking whether or not the razors are actually different, I know this to be a fact. The question is how others would handle the situation.

Photos:

What I received:
Attachment 92769

Seller's photo:
Attachment 92770


Looking more closely, you can even see that the box is different. (you can see traces of writing between Kinfolk's Inc. and the star)

I would send these photos to E-bay and PP and open a dispute case now...

That is pretty obvious that they are not the same even to Non_Razor people

Most deff,diff razors,for 30 bux ask the seller for a $15 rebate and keep what you got.

All of the advice offered here is sound, so I bid you good luck on the claim!

One thing that I have yet to see mentioned here, is a piece of the most sound advice I've ever heard when buying online - especially from eBay. In the watch community (WUS!), we've always said, "buy the seller, not the item." I've followed this mantra on every single ebay transaction, and it has never let me down.

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Originally Posted by eple

All of the advice offered here is sound, so I bid you good luck on the claim!

One thing that I have yet to see mentioned here, is a piece of the most sound advice I've ever heard when buying online - especially from eBay. In the watch community (WUS!), we've always said, "buy the seller, not the item." I've followed this mantra on every single ebay transaction, and it has never let me down.

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haha very true, almost like how you should play the man and not the cards in a game of poker. I guess I had the common mindset in this case that "it can never happen to me."

You have a claim. Open it, and receive justice. To answer your OP title though...All sellers don't do that. It's just that the seller you dealt with this time did. Sorry about your luck, but I also kinda think you should have taken into consideration that there were no returns on the item before buying it. You were taken advantage of because the seller did not explicitly say that it was a stock photo. And I thought Ebay doesn't want us using stock photos to begin with. Anyways, take heart..Ebay sellers are not the enemy. But the honest ones can't police the dishonest ones. So the best thing a person can do is talk to the seller before purchase. Your issue will get resolved though. The seller will probably get in a bit of trouble for this one. Which is the right thing IMO.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but is it possible the seller mistakenly sent you the wrong razor? Did you happen to check the seller's other items for sale. Maybe the seller had a few razors, possibly some different varieties of sizes/grinds from the same company and quite possibly sent you the wrong one. I only mention this as something similar happened to me awhile back, but was resolved through a few emails.

As above.I have done the same,a few friendly emails,all gets resolved,mistakes happen.

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Originally Posted by ReardenSteel

Just playing devil's advocate here, but is it possible the seller mistakenly sent you the wrong razor? Did you happen to check the seller's other items for sale. Maybe the seller had a few razors, possibly some different varieties of sizes/grinds from the same company and quite possibly sent you the wrong one. I only mention this as something similar happened to me awhile back, but was resolved through a few emails.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

As above.I have done the same,a few friendly emails,all gets resolved,mistakes happen.

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From the OP

After finding this, I contacted the seller and asked for a refund (auction was listed as no returns accepted). He tells me if it's returned in the same condition, he'll refund my money. So my question was... how do I prove this? If the item I received isn't the item pictured, how can I prove that I sent it back in the same condition? (also, looking at his feedback, someone in the past left neutral feedback because the guy promised a refund after a return and it was never issued)


Seems to me he already did the friendly e-mail part, and was looking for how to protect himself from a seller that is asking for the razor back first... If he sends the razor back without opening a dispute he has ZERO re-course and is at the mercy of a seller that has already proved himself to not be the most honest...

Works both ways as far as being honest,no way in hell I would issue a refund on a razor until I got it back in the same condition as sent.
I have over 700 positive feedbacks on ebay,100% for 13 yrs,mistakes happen,no need to call out the kill squad over 30 bux.

So as an expert then what is his course of action ???? and how is he protected ???

This thread is closed for Mod review

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Originally Posted by ats200

So, if it were you in this situation, how would you proceed? I only paid $30 for the item so it's not that I'll be broke if I return the item and never get my refund, but ideally, I'd like to have my refund before I send it back. After all, it was the seller who was deceiving, and it isn't just that I decided I didn't want the item for no legitimate reason.

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So, the thread is closed but I have the special power to post despite that, so I'll address the original question.

I don't see what the big problem is. The standard practice for returns is that the customer gets back his money after the vendor receives the returned merchandise. I have never dealt with a company that does it any other way. And if you open and win a dispute with ebay/paypal you will have to do exactly this - first return the razor and once it has been confirmed as delivered only then you get your money.

Seems pretty simple and straightforward to me, it's just the convention of how these things are done. If you want some extra special treatment you ought to be able to negotiate the exception with the other party, otherwise you'll just have to do it like everybody else.