My dang neck!

Hello all.

This is my first post outside of introduction so be gentle. :D

I have a 6/8 TI fox and rooster straight, full ground, new from Phil at classic edge in Canada.

It shave the hairs off my arm above the skin with ease and I can hear each one getting cut. I have been using a lot of prep and changed things around lately to cold water due to the stories I've heard with respect to less irritation. I concur so far but my problem is with the neck regardless of prep type.

Shaving the neck (wtg going s/n) is very difficult despite prep, angle etc as far as I have tried. I can switch to my Dovo shavette (which I trained on first) and it is much easier and effective. The TI stutters, skips, stops and I'm hesitant to continue. I have gotten through about 50% of my neck with very short, buffing strokes. Regardless, my neck has lots of burn and red following.

any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

John

Problems with the neck is probably the most common issue that I have seen in the forum. It will take time to figure out which way the hair is growing and the method to shave them well. I found the front center of my neck is best if I stretch the skin sideways instead of up or down.

Are you sure you understand the direction your hair is growing? For example, my hair grows up for about 1/2 at the bottom of my neck but down the rest except for the center which is a mix. You may need to change up the direction for wtg for parts of your neck.

So true ericd. To get a good angle for my neck hairs I seem to have to get into contortionist's positions worthy of a big top act. But the results are very satisfying and almost no irritation (sensitive skin, can't escape a little irritation). Creox, keep experimenting with skin stretching and angles. It does pay off with a happy face in the mirror. And don't forget an alum block when done. Lets you really know where you have irritated your face. Apply, 30+ seconds, rinse off, balm/aftershave, smile at yourself in the mirror and go out and slay the daily dragon (got to stop reading fantasy novels!).

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Originally Posted by Creox

Hello all.

This is my first post outside of introduction so be gentle. :D

I have a 6/8 TI fox and rooster straight, full ground, new from Phil at classic edge in Canada.

It shave the hairs off my arm above the skin with ease and I can hear each one getting cut. I have been using a lot of prep and changed things around lately to cold water due to the stories I've heard with respect to less irritation. I concur so far but my problem is with the neck regardless of prep type.

Shaving the neck (wtg going s/n) is very difficult despite prep, angle etc as far as I have tried. I can switch to my Dovo shavette (which I trained on first) and it is much easier and effective. The TI stutters, skips, stops and I'm hesitant to continue. I have gotten through about 50% of my neck with very short, buffing strokes. Regardless, my neck has lots of burn and red following.

any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

John

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Welcome John :). You will hear a lot about technique here and for good reason. It is extremely important however, so is a SHARP razor. If you are sure it's not the sharpness of your razor you can always try a shallower angle. About one spine width off neck but with a properly sharpened razor you shouldn't be having these troubles IMO especially if the shavette can handle it. I hear often that you shave with a different angle with a straight as opposed to a shavette but that hasn't been the case in my experience. I used a shavette for a long time before transitioning to a straight and had problems in the beginning but now that I have a properly sharpened razor I get shaves even better from my straight then I did from my shavette and with the same technique. Just my 2¢. Of course YMMV.

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Originally Posted by ericd

Problems with the neck is probably the most common issue that I have seen in the forum. It will take time to figure out which way the hair is growing and the method to shave them well. I found the front center of my neck is best if I stretch the skin sideways instead of up or down.

Are you sure you understand the direction your hair is growing? For example, my hair grows up for about 1/2 at the bottom of my neck but down the rest except for the center which is a mix. You may need to change up the direction for wtg for parts of your neck.

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Thank you for the reply.

I thought I knew the growth of my neck hair but now I'm checking out with some wonder and amazement. It feels like it's growing s/n but with more patience I find it is growing....all over the damn place! Hair on either side of my trachea grows at and angle towards it. In the middle it grows a bit towards my right and left sides. The hair on my jaw line grows towards the center...man!

It looks like I'll be taking some extra time with this part of my face next time and see what happens. I'll report back on Monday.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Razorfeld

So true ericd. To get a good angle for my neck hairs I seem to have to get into contortionist's positions worthy of a big top act. But the results are very satisfying and almost no irritation (sensitive skin, can't escape a little irritation). Creox, keep experimenting with skin stretching and angles. It does pay off with a happy face in the mirror. And don't forget an alum block when done. Lets you really know where you have irritated your face. Apply, 30+ seconds, rinse off, balm/aftershave, smile at yourself in the mirror and go out and slay the daily dragon (got to stop reading fantasy novels!).

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Thanks for the reply. I do use an alum block and boy are you right. The irritated areas are on either side of my windpipe and right side of my chin. At times a rash is seen on either side of lower part of my neck, below the ear. I'm just not sure why a razor blade works better for me than the straight even when it is quite sharp?

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Steel

Welcome John :). You will hear a lot about technique here and for good reason. It is extremely important however, so is a SHARP razor. If you are sure it's not the sharpness of your razor you can always try a shallower angle. About one spine width off neck but with a properly sharpened razor you shouldn't be having these troubles IMO especially if the shavette can handle it. I hear often that you shave with a different angle with a straight as opposed to a shavette but that hasn't been the case in my experience. I used a shavette for a long time before transitioning to a straight and had problems in the beginning but now that I have a properly sharpened razor I get shaves even better from my straight then I did from my shavette and with the same technique. Just my 2¢. Of course YMMV.

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Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. How can this straight be harder to pull through my whiskers when my shavette has far less issues? I have stropped and tested the TI a couple of times and it takes off hanging hairs on my arm easily....I've been thinking of sending it back to Phil for a re-hone.

Thanks

I agree with the above posts, but one thing that caused me problems when I first started shaving with a straight was pressure. Make sure your not pressing the razor against your skin too hard. Pressure seems to effect everything to do with straights from honing, stropping and shaving. Practice makes perfect. Don't give up.

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Originally Posted by JSmith1983

I agree with the above posts, but one thing that caused me problems when I first started shaving with a straight was pressure. Make sure your not pressing the razor against your skin too hard. Pressure seems to effect everything to do with straights from honing, stropping and shaving. Practice makes perfect. Don't give up.

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Thanks for the reply. I'm certainly not giving up...I didn't jump in head first. I cannonballed into this. LOL.

I do appreciate your thoughts on pressure. It's something I am mindful of but find I lose that thought after shaving for a few minutes. Good thing I can grow whiskers fast enough to keep practicing. :)

Welcome to the most friendly, helpful and informative site on the web!!

You will find members here of all different backgrounds, ages and occupations from all corners of the world and all with a quest for more knowledge about using and maintaining a straight razor!

I have never dealt with the seller of your razor, perhaps some other of your countrymen will join in!

With that said: Was the razor custom honed or did it come with a factory edge?? If it was a factory edge, then it is shall I say ‘lacking’! And that may be your major problem!!

Next; Have you stropped the razor? If so was the shave worse/better/or the same??

Now I also wonder about the s/n :shrug: are you referring to going from the neck to the chin? If so is this a first pass or a second?

Again, Welcome to an older but better way of shaving!! :tu

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Originally Posted by cudarunner

Welcome to the most friendly, helpful and informative site on the web!!

You will find members here of all different backgrounds, ages and occupations from all corners of the world and all with a quest for more knowledge about using and maintaining a straight razor!

I have never dealt with the seller of your razor, perhaps some other of your countrymen will join in!

With that said: Was the razor custom honed or did it come with a factory edge?? If it was a factory edge, then it is shall I say ‘lacking’! And that may be your major problem!!

Next; Have you stropped the razor? If so was the shave worse/better/or the same??

Now I also wonder about the s/n :shrug: are you referring to going from the neck to the chin? If so is this a first pass or a second?

Again, Welcome to an older but better way of shaving!! :tu

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Phil custom hones all his razors, at least he advertises that he does and the feedback on his site is very positive. I have stropped the razor and used 5 passes on felt and .25 diamond spray with 30-40 passes on a bridal strop. I found the sharpness had improved after significantly.

S/N refers to the growth of my neck hair but as I posted above in reply to another, it's not quite as S/N as I first thought. Regardless, the hair generally grows up from the bottom of my neck. It was my first pass on two days growth.

Thanks for the reply.

John

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Originally Posted by Creox

Phil custom hones all his razors, at least he advertises that he does and the feedback on his site is very positive. I have stropped the razor and used 5 passes on felt and .25 diamond spray with 30-40 passes on a bridal strop. I found the sharpness had improved after significantly.

S/N refers to the growth of my neck hair but as I posted above in reply to another, it's not quite as S/N as I first thought. Regardless, the hair generally grows up from the bottom of my neck. It was my first pass on two days growth.

Thanks for the reply.

John

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Yes, Phil does all the razors himself, when I had the pleasure of getting a lesson from him on how to use my coticule, he had a nice setup with dozens of razors and all his stones, and I've had many blades done by him and they're all perfectly done.

As Gssixgun(Glen) says, beginning in straight shaving it's always, 1) the blade, 2) the lather, 3) your beard, or a few other things we have all blamed / questioned when we first started out.

Take it slow, and make sure you're following the proper angles with no pressure and stropping properly...it all eventually comes together.

Good luck!

Just my two cents here. My razor pulls and I still get about a 97 % bbs on my neck and all over for that matter. I'm not saying that you should not worry about having a sharp razor by any means. Everyone here is pretty much covering all bases and such so I can only say this. It has been my experience that, since Wet shaving usually involves more than one pass that the ATG pass should be done last. That to me should be on the finish up as it is pretty aggressive and with those whiskers being longer on the first go, you want to be more kinder to your face as their is more resistance if that makes sense. Again that's a personal experience of my own. Light pressure and shorter more focused strokes on the first pass (not ATG) and then come back on the second or third if need be pass to finish ATG usually seems a lot kinder and I get no redness or irritation. Cheers.

Oh yeah...ATG always the final pass for me!

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Originally Posted by Creox

Phil custom hones all his razors, at least he advertises that he does and the feedback on his site is very positive. I have stropped the razor and used 5 passes on felt and .25 diamond spray with 30-40 passes on a bridal strop. I found the sharpness had improved after significantly.

S/N refers to the growth of my neck hair but as I posted above in reply to another, it's not quite as S/N as I first thought. Regardless, the hair generally grows up from the bottom of my neck. It was my first pass on two days growth.

Thanks for the reply.

John

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Ok, are you shaving from the neck to the chin on the first pass? If so how does it go?

Also, are you using the diamond spray every time you strop? Just wondering!

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Originally Posted by Phrank

Yes, Phil does all the razors himself, when I had the pleasure of getting a lesson from him on how to use my coticule, he had a nice setup with dozens of razors and all his stones, and I've had many blades done by him and they're all perfectly done.

As Gssixgun(Glen) says, beginning in straight shaving it's always, 1) the blade, 2) the lather, 3) your beard, or a few other things we have all blamed / questioned when we first started out.

Take it slow, and make sure you're following the proper angles with no pressure and stropping properly...it all eventually comes together.

Good luck!

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Thanks for the advice. I will definitely be taking it slower on Monday.

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Originally Posted by cudarunner

Ok, are you shaving from the neck to the chin on the first pass? If so how does it go?

Also, are you using the diamond spray every time you strop? Just wondering!

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I'm attempting to shave from the neck up to the jaw line on each side with the first pass going south to north. I find the first strokes at the bottom of my neck jump and I stall a bit. I am unsure of my angle or how to get a shallower one...just nerves.

I have used the diamond spray once for 5 laps and used the leather before and after I shave 25-30 laps.

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Originally Posted by Nightblade

Just my two cents here. My razor pulls and I still get about a 97 % bbs on my neck and all over for that matter. I'm not saying that you should not worry about having a sharp razor by any means. Everyone here is pretty much covering all bases and such so I can only say this. It has been my experience that, since Wet shaving usually involves more than one pass that the ATG pass should be done last. That to me should be on the finish up as it is pretty aggressive and with those whiskers being longer on the first go, you want to be more kinder to your face as their is more resistance if that makes sense. Again that's a personal experience of my own. Light pressure and shorter more focused strokes on the first pass (not ATG) and then come back on the second or third if need be pass to finish ATG usually seems a lot kinder and I get no redness or irritation. Cheers.

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Thanks for the reply.

My first pass is wtg and I rarely ever go atg up till this time. Only time I have is with a DE and once with the shavette on the bottom of my neck where a couple of strays are hard to file off wtg.

I guess my biggest question mark is why the shavette would be easier to use, smoother etc? Is that just due to the obvious differences in the way they are designed?

Using .25 diamond on leather probably won't help in terms of comfort...a lot of people find it to be too harsh. Even when using .5 diamond, it's common to follow up with .5 chromium oxide. This is because the diamond particles are sharp, while the chromium particles are smooth. If I were using .25 diamond, I'd still follow up with .5 chromium oxide.

The medium that you apply these compounds to is also a factor. Diamond on hard pressed wool or some sort of soft fabric would be smoother than diamond on leather or balsa. The same is true with crox.

Another thing to know is that the more you use a pasted strop, the more the compound is worked into it's medium.

What is the .25 diamond on, felt or leather?

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Originally Posted by Creox

Thanks for the reply.

My first pass is wtg and I rarely ever go atg up till this time. Only time I have is with a DE and once with the shavette on the bottom of my neck where a couple of strays are hard to file off wtg.

I guess my biggest question mark is why the shavette would be easier to use, smoother etc? Is that just due to the obvious differences in the way they are designed?

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I fully understand about ‘nerves’! I’ve told many people that when a man first puts a straight razor against their throat and say that they aren’t ‘Nervous’ is a liar! I know that I was nervous as hell!

Since you have gotten ‘better’ shaves with your shavette, there are a couple of things to put into the already complicated formula!

First, the length of the shavette is much shorter than a straight! Second there is the difference in size and weight also the angles should be different because of the different sizes!

Phrank was absolutely correct when he said that Glen has repeatedly said that there are many things that those who are first starting out can ‘blame’ the poor shave on! You’ve said that the razor was custom honed and Phrank joined in verifying that the razors are personally honed! So that should delete one!

You seem confident that your stropping is correct!

Sooo---

Even though you seem hesitant to, please lower your razor when you first start your upward pass/if this doesn’t help, try going n/s where you usually get to the pulling and stopping with your straight!

It might be worse, but you never know until you try!

This Art has so many learning curves that it’s not even funny!! Years ago when a young man needed to start shaving he had his father or an uncle or even perhaps a grandfather who would guide them! Plus their beard was still young and soft so they learned as the beard changed!

Hang in there! It’s a long road but the journey is well worth the trip! :tu

On a completely different tack, how is your lather? If it is a little paste like/dry maybe that could help produce the sticking and skipping.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Creox

I'm attempting to shave from the neck up to the jaw line on each side with the first pass going south to north. I find the first strokes at the bottom of my neck jump and I stall a bit. I am unsure of my angle or how to get a shallower one...just nerves.

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Lay the razor flat on your neck, spine touching. There should be no sticking or stalling. If you still get irritation it's not your angle.

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Originally Posted by Creox

I guess my biggest question mark is why the shavette would be easier to use, smoother etc? Is that just due to the obvious differences in the way they are designed?

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You haven't stropped the shavette so you have not influenced its edge. Did you strop the TI before use or did you have trouble from the start ?

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Originally Posted by kwlfca

Using .25 diamond on leather probably won't help in terms of comfort...a lot of people find it to be too harsh. Even when using .5 diamond, it's common to follow up with .5 chromium oxide. This is because the diamond particles are sharp, while the chromium particles are smooth. If I were using .25 diamond, I'd still follow up with .5 chromium oxide.

The medium that you apply these compounds to is also a factor. Diamond on hard pressed wool or some sort of soft fabric would be smoother than diamond on leather or balsa. The same is true with crox.

Another thing to know is that the more you use a pasted strop, the more the compound is worked into it's medium.

What is the .25 diamond on, felt or leather?

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Thanks for the reply :)

I'm using the .25 on a felt hanging strop that comes with a leather bridle strop. Thanks for the info on the crox. Could I use it on the felt as well or is that now the domain of the diamond spray?

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Originally Posted by BobH

On a completely different tack, how is your lather? If it is a little paste like/dry maybe that could help produce the sticking and skipping.

Bob

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Now that you mention it my lather tends to dry out quickly. It is a part of this quest I'm finding out along the way. :)

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Lay the razor flat on your neck, spine touching. There should be no sticking or stalling. If you still get irritation it's not your angle.




You haven't stropped the shavette so you have not influenced its edge. Did you strop the TI before use or did you have trouble from the start ?

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I had trouble from the start but then again I held and used the straight like the shavette. I will try laying the blade flat...never did that before as I usually hold it 10-15 degrees from my skin.

Thanks a lot....!

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Originally Posted by Creox

Thanks for the reply :)

I'm using the .25 on a felt hanging strop that comes with a leather bridle strop. Thanks for the info on the crox. Could I use it on the felt as well or is that now the domain of the diamond spray?

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You'd have to use the crox on something else. I'd undo the screws and flip the felt piece over and just use the clean side for now. I'd do 15-20 on the felt, followed by 50-60 on leather.

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Originally Posted by kwlfca

You'd have to use the crox on something else. I'd undo the screws and flip the felt piece over and just use the clean side for now. I'd do 15-20 on the felt, followed by 50-60 on leather.

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I will do that..thanks for the tip.

Creox,

I read all the posts, but a couple of things.....the shavette usually will be a more rigid edge/blade than a full hollow ground razor. The shavette edge won't flex as much when contacting and cutting the whiskers. A full hollow grind is thin and wider than the shavette and if you have an angle on the blade similar to the shavette it is going to flex much more and try to dig in. As Onimaru said.....flatten out the blade, spine close to or touching the skin. If it doesn't shave, increase just slightly and try again.

Of course sharpness is key and I know Phil gives good edges. But if you have used too high of an angle the scraping of the skin can dull the razor, and that scraping also causes irritation. Stropping..? You'll have to judge that.

Dealing with prep, blade angles and what to expect from a good edge.....here's a video that should help.

:gl:

Howard :)

What is "The Shave Test" for a Straight Razor - YouTube

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Originally Posted by SirStropalot

Creox,

I read all the posts, but a couple of things.....the shavette usually will be a more rigid edge/blade than a full hollow ground razor. The shavette edge won't flex as much when contacting and cutting the whiskers. A full hollow grind is thin and wider than the shavette and if you have an angle on the blade similar to the shavette it is going to flex much more and try to dig in. As Onimaru said.....flatten out the blade, spine close to or touching the skin. If it doesn't shave, increase just slightly and try again.

Of course sharpness is key and I know Phil gives good edges. But if you have used too high of an angle the scraping of the skin can dull the razor, and that scraping also causes irritation. Stropping..? You'll have to judge that.

Dealing with prep, blade angles and what to expect from a good edge.....here's a video that should help.

:gl:

Howard :)

What is "The Shave Test" for a Straight Razor - YouTube

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Thanks! Excellent advice from all you guys.

My razor does quite well on the cheeks, no pulling so it appears i need to flatten my angle and check my beard growth more closely.

Great forum!

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Originally Posted by Creox

My razor does quite well on the cheeks, no pulling so it appears i need to flatten my angle and check my beard growth more closely.

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And as you mentioned above get the lather a bit more hydrated.

Just a short update.

I tried a couple more times before realizing that I just was not happy with the edge. It is likely I buggered it while stropping as this is a brand new gig for me.
I called Phil at Classic Edge and the guy phoned and talked to me for over 15 minutes! I was impressed and he is going to re-hone for free minus shipping.

I'll get back to this thread after I get it back and try again.

To infinity and beyond! :)