Uh oh... I over-honed

Hi all,

Well... this sucks.

After remembering to NOT try to catch a dropped razor, my freshly honed straight had a tiny visual "ding" along the edge when it landed in my sink. I couldn't feel it with the thumbnail test, and didn't even see it until a few days later. Regardless, I didn't want to take any chances.

So... onto my Norton 4K/8K for a basic pyramid (3/3, 1/3, 1/5) and then 20 strops on linen and 30 strops on leather (Tony's #1 latigo). At this point I could barely see the blemish on the blade, so I thought I was good to go.

So... when I shaved this morning, I experienced a perfect textbook example from Lynn's video about what an over-honed blade feels like. It didn't "pull" at all, but I wasn't cutting any hair.

:cen I had to finish with my DE.

Now, I'm new at both stroping and honing, but have watched Lynn's video several times and read a whole lot. I used only the weight of the blade, kept it perfectly flat, and didn't see anything obvious that I was doing wrong.

So.... what do I do at this point? Another pyramid? Wait until I have a yellow corticule? A thumbnail test to try to strip the burr?

God I hate being a noob.

Thanks all!

Peter

If all you did was a basic pyramid then it's unlikely you overhoned. Something else went wrong. My guess is you managed to really really dull it. If this was your first time using the norton then you might want to make sure the stone is lapped flat - the first time I used the norton mine wasn't lapped flat and it dulled the razor instead of sharpening it.

This is interesting......try a couple of 1-3's, strop, test and report.....

Thanks,

Lynn

Would you say you used pressure to get rid of the ding?

One more vote for a dulled edge here, and Michael has given excellent advice on lapping the stone. Draw a grid on the hone with pencil and do a figure 8 - if this doesn't remove the grid evenly in 1-2 laps it wasn't ready for honing and dulled the edge.

Cheers
Ivo

Would someone please explain to me what 'over-honed' actually refers to?

Another way to put it, if I sectioned the blade int he axial direction (leaving a slice like those shown on the Henkles grind guide), what would an over honed edge look like? Dull, or wide edge? Folded over wire edge? etc... thx - John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Namdnas

Would someone please explain to me what 'over-honed' actually refers to?

Another way to put it, if I sectioned the blade int he axial direction (leaving a slice like those shown on the Henkles grind guide), what would an over honed edge look like? Dull, or wide edge? Folded over wire edge? etc... thx - John

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John -

If I understand the term correctly, it generally refers to a wire edge. I think its when the edge gets so thin from sharpening that it creates a thin wirey(?) burr. Certainly no expert me but this is what I've gleaned from reading.

It doesn't have to be that far gone. It's possible for a blade to be a little bit overhoned, in which case the edge is weak and may not survive very long (couple of shaves), and tends to shave uncomfortably.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Namdnas

Would someone please explain to me what 'over-honed' actually refers to?

Another way to put it, if I sectioned the blade int he axial direction (leaving a slice like those shown on the Henkles grind guide), what would an over honed edge look like? Dull, or wide edge? Folded over wire edge? etc... thx - John

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Over-honed means the edge is honed to the point that it is too thin and tends to break off, or crumble as it cuts. You can detect this condition by using the thumb nail test. As you pull the blade across the nail, if the edge bites into the nail, but feels rough like a file (due to the edge crumbling), instead of feeling smooth, it is likely over-honed.

You could test for this on your face with a shave, but me, I'd rather not do any testing on my face. The thumb is a very reliable indicator.

I'm not sure what an over-honed edge would look like in cross section. But I do know this: once you learn how to use your thumb nail while honing, you can avoid over-honing most of the time. And if you do over shoot, you will know right away.

Scott

Great explanations! In a microscope an overhoned edge to me starts with little stars/breaks in the edge. As the condition gets worse the edge goes from looking like a smooth "wall" to a "wall" that has had a sledgehammer taken to it. Lots of tears, holes, rips etc. It might look like an irregularly patterned serrated blade on the edge.

You will usually be shocked when you see a badly overhoned razor and it can be easily felt with the thumbnail test. Its the slightly overhoned edge that is really hard to feel or see.

By the way if you can still "barely see the blemish on the blade" with the naked eye I wouldn't consider the razor "good to go" I would think it still needs quite a bit of work.

I will usually work a nick out until I can't see it even under 60x magnification. Then I move on to sharpening the blade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wildtim

By the way if you can still "barely see the blemish on the blade" with the naked eye I wouldn't consider the razor "good to go" I would think it still needs quite a bit of work.

I will usually work a nick out until I can't see it even under 60x magnification. Then I move on to sharpening the blade.

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I only use 30x but this is a good catch.

Now, I know some people will shave with a little chip / crack but from what I hear it's not recommended, especially for beginners.

Cheers
Ivo

Hi all... well... I did it!

You guys rock! It was my Norton 4K/8K not being flat. I got a flat ceramic tile and fine grit sandpaper, and after soaking the hone and drawing a grid in pencil, I began lapping and saw that it wasn't flat at all.

I got both sides of the Norton flat, watched Lynn's video section on honing, and did a couple of pyramids and then did 50 strops on the linen and leather. Then this morning was the moment of truth.

It was WONDERFUL! What a feeling of accomplishment to get something right that seems sometimes like a "black art".

Thanks to all for your sage advice.

Peter

I'm still a bit confused by "Overhoned". I understand wire edge but this is different than scary sharp.l

Over-honed to me seems like a heavy hand and bad technique thinning the blade rather than sharpening it.

Please help me understand if I'm still confused.

Thanks,
Bob