My boker straight is sharp enough to cut a held hair but I can't get a baby face shav

I bought a H. Boker tree brand razor from a friend about 9-10 months ago. Besides using a disposable on my chin the first time I haven't used any other razor but my straight since. I bought a vintage hone in August of last year and have learned to use it well enough to where I can hold a hair in my fingers and cut it with one swipe (and a ting sound). Also I can now shave 95% of the time without cutting myself and without having to use my free hand to stretch the skin. A shaving method I have seen in many old movies where the actor is shaving themselves and the scene isn't trying to make them look manly or such.

I can shave to the point where it's almost baby smooth (after cold water rinse and 10mins after shaving where my face is post shave relaxed) and I still feel roughness that I didn't have when I used to shave with a mach (whatever it was 5 I think) and although I wasn't around (am 40yrs old at this writing in 2015) when the first Remington electric razor came out I remember seeing the retro revived comercial where buddy says "as sharp as a blade or your money back" and I have used a modern electric razor and it too shaved closer than I am able to with my straight. So either it's a case of mistaken memories or I am doing something wrong. In technique, sharpening, prep, other and or all of the above. Furthermore without actually going to an old school barber to have a straight shave (with one of those silly disposable straights) I won't have much of a yard stick to compare with. And btw my razor is hideously sharp I believe, and is capable of cutting skin with even the lightest of touches as I found out when rinsing off the collected soap in the bath once and tapped my leg by accident.

I know I suck at stropping because if I use my hone for a few strokes and forgo the strop my razor pulls exponentially less than if I strop after or only strop. I also only shave 2-3 times a week * which is more than enough time for my razor to straighten properly. Also I don't think it is over sharpened and or developed a wire edge as I feel no resistance when drawing a finger tip from spine to edge **. I believe I have covered everything if not I guess I'll find out.

Hopefully finding an answer to my problem

* I still can't grow a full beard at 40yrs old and my facial hair is slow to grow

** I can never remember what is perpendicular etc... so any answers need to be in terms like I just used or it will end up in a clarification question type response from myself

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Originally Posted by machv5

I bought a H. Boker tree brand razor from a friend about 9-10 months ago. Besides using a disposable on my chin the first time I haven't used any other razor but my straight since. I bought a vintage hone in August of last year and have learned to use it well enough to where I can hold a hair in my fingers and cut it with one swipe (and a ting sound). Also I can now shave 95% of the time without cutting myself and without having to use my free hand to stretch the skin. A shaving method I have seen in many old movies where the actor is shaving themselves and the scene isn't trying to make them look manly or such.

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Stop being lazy, get that free hand out of your pocket and stretch your skin. That is part of how you get a BBS.

Is the hair hanging or is it held at both ends? The "ting" sound concerns me.

Please describe your hone and your strop.

Most importantly, have you read anything of the standard stuff here in this forum for beginners?

Your best bet would be to compare the results you are getting from your honing with that done by someone with more experience. In other words, you should either have someone else hone your razor or you should buy another one that is properly honed.

I confer with splashone, if ur not stretching, ur hairs are not being raised so you can get that close shave you are looking for. Plus the direction you stretch will make a difference too. Stretch ATG to raise the hairs perpendicular to the skin. Stretching WTG, while will provide a smooth surface to shave on, it will lay the hairs down closer to the skin.

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Originally Posted by Splashone

Stop being lazy, get that free hand out of your pocket and stretch your skin. That is part of how you get a BBS.

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I am not being lazy I can't hold the mirror and shave at the same time in the bath. And yeas I can see my face properly I dunk the mirror in the hot water so it doesn't fog.

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Originally Posted by machv5

I am not being lazy I can't hold the mirror and shave at the same time in the bath. And yeas I can see my face properly I dunk the mirror in the hot water so it doesn't fog.

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Alright, this is so wrong in so many ways...it must be a troll.

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Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

I confer with splashone, if ur not stretching, ur hairs are not being raised so you can get that close shave you are looking for. Plus the direction you stretch will make a difference too. Stretch ATG to raise the hairs perpendicular to the skin. Stretching WTG, while will provide a smooth surface to shave on, it will lay the hairs down closer to the skin.

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Okily dokily will do. I have to shave tonight so will get back to you. As for what I am using. My razor is an H. Boker and co. razor. With square tip, slightly beveled spine barbers notch, mother of pearl on tang, and black celuloid scales (I think it's celluloid can't be Bakelite). The logo on the box dates from 1869-1900 which is pre Bakelite. plus a hot needle doesn't give off odor of cat pee like bakelite. It also wasn't bought online so I have no reason to assume that the box and razor are from separate sources. I use a Franz Swaty hone I recently bought via my local classified usedottawa.com site, I also flattened properly (aka lapped it) with a 4000 grit arkansas stone, so it is flat. My strop is pitiful as I bought it on ebay for a few dollars and the quality of leather is one step away from being added to the ingredients in a pack of no name wieners. I have gotten a closer shave by going against the grain but it is both not much different and too a scary an endeavor to use on a regular basis unless I am feeling particularly brave due to my date being as attractive as Mila Jovovich.

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Originally Posted by Splashone

Alright, this is so wrong in so many ways...it must be a troll.

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I am not a troll why would you think that? I will post pics of my razor etc.. if that helps.

How many passes are you doing?

I started with one. This cuts the hairs, but it is not baby face smooth. This, i go with the grain. I go with this when i am rushing. I bumped it to two passes to get agaisnt the grain. This pretty much gets it baby face smooth for me. However just a week ago, i started doing 3 passes because i found a patch above my jaw that kept getting bypassed along with a spot on my neck and chin that require special attention. It would mess up my rhythm. So i just do all the "odd" parts on the 3rd pass. I think after a couple months i am now aware of "how" to shave my face to get it all baby smooth.

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At first i was particularly uncomfortable going against the grain. I cut myself almost each time. But i kept forcing myself to do it each time. It took me awhile to figure out how to do it properly. I still sometimes cut myself going against the grain, but now it only happens when i am trying to rush through the shave.

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Question...are u shaving in the shower or at the sink. It is rarely if more like never recommended to str8 shave in the shower. Too many dangerous factors that then come into play. Do you have fixed mirror you can shave in front of.

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Originally Posted by metulburr

How many passes are you doing?

I started with one. This cuts the hairs, but it is not baby face smooth. This, i go with the grain. I go with this when i am rushing. I bumped it to two passes to get agaisnt the grain. This pretty much gets it baby face smooth for me. However just a week ago, i started doing 3 passes because i found a patch above my jaw that kept getting bypassed along with a spot on my neck and chin that require special attention. It would mess up my rhythm. So i just do all the "odd" parts on the 3rd pass. I think after a couple months i am now aware of "how" to shave my face to get it all baby smooth.

At first i was particularly uncomfortable going against the grain. I cut myself almost each time. But i kept forcing myself to do it each time. It took me awhile to figure out how to do it properly. I still sometimes cut myself going against the grain, but now it only happens when i am trying to rush through it.

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I shave with a zen like state (by which I mean I relax and focus intently) I use more than one pass and go sideways to the grain on my chin and use air in my cheeks etc... to compensate for hollows and my angular face as I am thin and don't have a nice rotund shaped face. I used to stretch my skin but found it no longer makes much difference. And by the time I am at a place where I can go against the grain e.g., after I have gotten what I can with the grain, my razors edge feels duller to where it pulls and I'm scared.

Sadly I don't know anyone personally that either does or used to shave with a straight razor other than myself as I am from an era where everyone started with a disposable and have seen via movies straight razors used as terrifying weapons by men and cartoons in zoot suits and thus our psychology has been conditioned to think only old men without any other choice or use is faked in movies such as James Bond (btw is not why I started using one it came up in results when I was searching about them)

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Originally Posted by machv5

I am not being lazy I can't hold the mirror and shave at the same time in the bath. And yeas I can see my face properly I dunk the mirror in the hot water so it doesn't fog.

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This is just comical and the source of your problems

I usually shave at the sink. And sometimes in the bath, hence my knowing my razor is sharp enough to cut skin with the slightest of touches. In the bath is also where I learned that dunking the mirror in the hot water stops it from fogging up. I tried once to shave without hot water towel conditioning or soaking for 20mins in the tub and the pain from what seemed like ripping my hair out and fear of permanent scaring stopped me halfway through the second stroke.

OK I'm getting a bit off topic I think. I am off to shave now and will try the face stretching techniques, as to be honest I can't remember when I did that throughout the shave since I got my hone. I will get back to you in about an hour unless I fail horribly which will take longer assuming I don't bleed to death before the paramedics arrive. lol

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Originally Posted by RedGladiator

This is just comical and the source of your problems

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Hey, it's a zen thing ........ :)

Shaving in the shower might be alright for a cartridge, maybe even a DE, but with a straight razor it is advisable to stretch the skin with the opposite hand. Unless you do that you'll never get a satisfactory shave, even if the razor is properly shave ready. Begin to properly stretch skin when shaving, and then, and only then, will you determine if the razor is shave ready. :gl:

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Originally Posted by RedGladiator

This is just comical and the source of your problems

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Sorry I have a tendancy to add humor into my forum posts and that one actually wasn't meant to be one of them and was due to my having issues with a foggy mirror in the past. I just envisioned a response to the state of my mirror as hot water. I would have thought to ask that as I live in Canada and it's -12c outside right now and a foggy mirror is an issue for me

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Hey, it's a zen thing ........ :)

Shaving in the shower might be alright for a cartridge, maybe even a DE, but with a straight razor it is advisable to stretch the skin with the opposite hand. Unless you do that you'll never get a satisfactory shave, even if the razor is properly shave ready. Begin to properly stretch skin when shaving, and then, and only then, will you determine if the razor is shave ready. :gl:

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ty. and it actually is for me odd as that sounds and one of the only times I can shut off my head completely and just exist in the moment.

With this situation I think there is more than one thing going on here that needs to be addressed. One is that u are still new to str8 shaving. When I think new I think anyone <1 yr under their belt. And with that you are still dealing with the learning curve. Especially since you said that you don't know anyone personally that str8 shaves. Granted I'm like that also but I look up to people here on SRP who have shown yrs of experience as the guru's (at least to me) whether I like what they say or not.

2. From what has been said I don't think that you have provided yourself with a good shave den setup that will optimize your performance while reducing your learning curve. For example make sure you have a fixed mirror you can shave in front of. I have seen picks of some peoples shave den be in their bedroom but they get good shaves. If fogging is an issue. Wipe it down, crack a window or door, or go get some rain-x anti-fog. But you will need both hands at all times when str8 shaving in order to get the best results.

3rd and lastly. Though we recommend in order to get the most comfortable shave to prep your beard, if your razor is pulling that much on an unpreped beard I would want to think that your razor is not "shave ready" even though it passes what we call a HHT. Only the shave test will tell if the razor is shave ready. And so I might venture to say even though I think it is too much a go to answer for too many here. Here I go. Your bevel may not be set anymore or needs a good refresh. So either give it a good refreshing to where it passes the shave test or go ahead and rehone from bevel set. Plus not having a good strop will definitely hurt your results so I would get that alleviated ASAP.

I too see a few issues here. One is your technique and lack of skin stretching and the other is it sounds like you need a proper strop. I would think that if you start with a shave ready razor it would take some of the variables out of the equation. There are quite a few members in Ontario and a few guys that hone. I think you might want to try to hook up with someone in your area. This might work better if you put a more specific location in your profile

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Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

With this situation I think there is more than one thing going on here that needs to be addressed. One is that u are still new to str8 shaving. When I think new I think anyone <1 yr under their belt. And with that you are still dealing with the learning curve. Especially since you said that you don't know anyone personally that str8 shaves. Granted I'm like that also but I look up to people here on SRP who have shown yrs of experience as the guru's (at least to me) whether I like what they say or not.

2. From what has been said I don't think that you have provided yourself with a good shave den setup that will optimize your performance while reducing your learning curve. For example make sure you have a fixed mirror you can shave in front of. I have seen picks of some peoples shave den be in their bedroom but they get good shaves. If fogging is an issue. Wipe it down, crack a window or door, or go get some rain-x anti-fog. But you will need both hands at all times when str8 shaving in order to get the best results.

3rd and lastly. Though we recommend in order to get the most comfortable shave to prep your beard, if your razor is pulling that much on an unpreped beard I would want to think that your razor is not "shave ready" even though it passes what we call a HHT. Only the shave test will tell if the razor is shave ready. And so I might venture to say even though I think it is too much a go to answer for too many here. Here I go. Your bevel may not be set anymore or needs a good refresh. So either give it a good refreshing to where it passes the shave test or go ahead and rehone from bevel set. Plus not having a good strop will definitely hurt your results so I would get that alleviated ASAP.

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I assume HHT stands for hanging hair test. I last tried the cold shave when I was only using a 4000 grit stone and my belt for a strop. I agree with your comment on experience fully, I still feel like a noobie when it comes to str8 shaving. I will invest in a proper strop when I can. And I will seek out a pro to see what actual shape my razor is in I did find one here in Ottawa but haven't as yet followed up and met him. I tried the against the grain but couldn't complete my entire face due to a few skips which were due to too much trepidation and a lack of confidence. However where I did manage to complete the against grain shaving I have to say it is as close to pre-pubescent as I can get without reverting back to 10yrs old so that did help. Once I have attempted the against grain shaving more and become comfortable with doing so I believe I will achieve what I am after as an end result and coupled with more knowledge on honing etc... I appreciate all the quick responses and advice.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Is the hair hanging or is it held at both ends? The "ting" sound concerns me.

Please describe your hone and your strop.

Most importantly, have you read anything of the standard stuff here in this forum for beginners?

Your best bet would be to compare the results you are getting from your honing with that done by someone with more experience. In other words, you should either have someone else hone your razor or you should buy another one that is properly honed.

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Hanging and the ting sound is made when the razor hits the hair. I swipe at it if a true HHT test is where the hair can be cut from merely drawing it across the blade or pushing the hair trough it then no my razor isn't as sharp as that.

Yes. Your razor is unfortunately not shave ready. Get that fixed, use two hands shaving to stretch, and you will be amazed. My 2¢

ty. Am glad I now know. Also I am shocked that my razor can still be and needs to be sharper than it already is. I need my Mommy!

I was just researching my razor again and have found an exact match on ebay. The fact that mine and his razor are both very unused states had me wondering if mine was a fake. The words frerik zeichen are on the box with the tree in between the words. I looked up the german for those words and frerik doesn't exist but is similar to the word free and is raising a flag or two. I emailed boker to see if they can help me identify my razor. WHat do you guys make of this?

Your razor isn't fake, just not well honed as seen in the picture you posted, but that's fixable :)
I've got two words for you that can free your hand for skin stretching - 'duct tape'!

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Originally Posted by gugi

Your razor isn't fake, just not well honed as seen in the picture you posted, but that's fixable :)
I've got two words for you that can free your hand for skin stretching - 'duct tape'!

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Ha ha ha ha ha.... hmmm I wonder how I should apply it. Taping my cheek to my forehead might work, but have to be careful not to do a Brazilian on on my eyebrows when removing the tape.

And thanks for letting me know my razor is legit. So what's with the non existent word Frerik on the box?

I'd do it the other way - one end of the duct tape to the mirror, the other one to a wall. But yours could work too :)

lol... I didn't think that was what you meant I thought you were making a joke. And I just went back and looked at my pics to see if I could discern the bad honing. And when I saw the box I thought it odd that it read FABRIK so I used a flashlight and lo and behold it is FABRIK not FRERIK in brighter lighting. Trippy, that it looks that way under bad light.

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Originally Posted by gugi

Your razor isn't fake, just not well honed as seen in the picture you posted, but that's fixable :)
I've got two words for you that can free your hand for skin stretching - 'duct tape'!

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Sheesh.... it does look bad in the photo doesn't it.

i cant tll you anything more then everyone else but just the other day i was shaving in the bath tub .. i wasnt stretching the skin either and as i dropped my razor from having wet soapy hands ( Mr. Bubbles to be exact )ii went to catch it with my free hand and OOOUUUUCCCCHHHHH !!!!!!
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/IMAG3708.jpg



:beer1:
just kidding and thought i would add some humor , but seriously a in bath shave can be really dangerous !! i was just cleaning scales on a razor today and touched a blade with my knuckle , didnt feel a thing but bled like a stuck pig !! i'd hate to drop that razor between my legs in the tub .. !!

there has been a lot of good info given and even more out there in the forums "beginners" section that will help you .. i was one to run before i could walk in every part of this from lather making -shaving- honing -restoration- and pretty much everything else and what i thought was relaxing enjoyment was nothing till i took a step back and learned to crawl !! have fun and be a sponge !! soak it all in man !!

I'm no expert as I only have a year and a half or so of straight razor experience under my belt. I can tell you a couple of things I learned the hard way. One is that a razor can be the sharpest thing you've ever handled, and still not be sharp enough to get a baby smooth shave from. Having it sharpened by the best will make it that sharp, but it won't be any more dangerous than it is now. If you've learned to handle it safely the way it is, you've no need to worry about it being a little sharper.
Another thing I learned is that you really can't get a great shave without stretching the skin. Lord knows I tried for a long time. With a cartridge or a safety razor, the bar (or comb) stretch the skin ahead of the blade(s) for you. You're not having to stretch it, but it is being stretched.
The third thing I wanted to say;I'm just more than a little paranoid about it. Not only have I never used a straight razor in the shower, but even in front of the sink each time I lather-up, I dry my hands on a towel before I pick-up the razor. Rinse, re-lather, dry my hands, pick-up the razor, shave, repeat. I don't want to drop that razor. For the same reason, never fry bacon while naked.............(I did learn that the hard way)........

If stropping seemingly dulls the razor, I'd wager a guess that it's not really honed as it should be :/ Could be just a flaky edge that is technically sharp, but without a properly formed bevel and honed edge, quickly crumbles

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Originally Posted by Java

I'm no expert as I only have a year and a half or so of straight razor experience under my belt. I can tell you a couple of things I learned the hard way. One is that a razor can be the sharpest thing you've ever handled, and still not be sharp enough to get a baby smooth shave from. Having it sharpened by the best will make it that sharp, but it won't be any more dangerous than it is now. If you've learned to handle it safely the way it is, you've no need to worry about it being a little sharper.
Another thing I learned is that you really can't get a great shave without stretching the skin. Lord knows I tried for a long time. With a cartridge or a safety razor, the bar (or comb) stretch the skin ahead of the blade(s) for you. You're not having to stretch it, but it is being stretched.
The third thing I wanted to say;I'm just more than a little paranoid about it. Not only have I never used a straight razor in the shower, but even in front of the sink each time I lather-up, I dry my hands on a towel before I pick-up the razor. Rinse, re-lather, dry my hands, pick-up the razor, shave, repeat. I don't want to drop that razor. For the same reason, never fry bacon while naked.............(I did learn that the hard way)........

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I did the bacon thing too. lol