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Correction: hone should be sharpening)
I read that if you use a coarse stone that it will leave deeper marks in the face of the open razor blade. And that these deeper marks could cause the razor to chip easier. (if this is true I am not sure yet)
But, if that is true. Is it a bit crazy too only use a 8K stone for sharpening?
How much time are you interested in spending?
And where did you read that?
I just read about the deep marks and made a personal conclusion that it could be good to use a 8K only.
No idea, how long it could take if I use a 8K only. So using a 8K is not realistic?
Source: https://jendeindustries.wordpress.co...razors-part-1/
Using an 8k only is not realistic. I would recommend doing a search on honing stone progressions for some ideas.
I would recommend doing some reading in the library section of the forum on honing.
Quality hones are pretty expensive. Unless you just really want to learn how to hone razors, I would suggest sending them to a professional. Then you can maintain the edge with a strop until it needs additional honing.
You don't stop with the coarse stones, so the 'scratches' doesn't matter. You work your way up from coarse to fine, removing the 'scratches' of the previous grit each time you progress. If you started out with a 8,000 grit stone on a razor that needs bevel work, it is going to take a LONG time.
It will also use a lot of relatively expensive stone in comparison to less cheaper lower grit stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by JP5
No need to re-event the wheel , go to the library and read up , but as your new , you should just send it out , you will need to know what a pro honed razor feels like and by the time you buy the hones, you can have your razor honed by a pro for a few years, Tc
So, I think you are mis-reading what Alison is saying in that article.
He is talking about Over Honing, and if it is, by itself an issue or are there other issues, like failing to remove deep low grit stria. Both of which are possible, the later more probable.
First understand that there is a lot of difference in honing a knife and a razor, the most important is comfort, a smooth edge is as important as keenness for straight razors. Comfort is a non-issue in knife sharpening.
You can maintain a razor on an 8k edge easily and many have with girt equivalent or less hones, for hundreds of years, Coticules, Slates, Arks & Barber Hones. But…
A lot will depend on the razor and what needs to be done to hone it and the skill level of the honer.
Yes, low grit hones with excessive pressure can lead to chipping, if the deep stria is not removed in a honing progression. While most issues can be handled with just an 8k stone, with time and skill, the same cannot be said of a 1k, no matter how much time and what your skill level is. One could shave off a 1k edge but it will never be comfortable or at least as comfortable as an 8k edge.
So, if your real question is, a one stone honing solution, the answer is “Your Milage Will Vary” and a progression is always a better solution hence, the bare bones, 4/8k Norton’s reputation.
If you want to hone razors begin you education in the Library Section/ Maintaining Razors and the Honing Forum and at least the first 3 threads there. If you want to sharpen knives the Jende blog is a good start, even the Wicked Edge uses a multi stone progression.
Start by reading through this section and I think you will have a much better understanding of the process
Category:Honing - Straight Razor Place Library
Thanks for the replies. It has been very helpful. Looks like I am going for 4K / 8K stones. Since I know I am a beginner with honing a straight razor. I bought a 2nd hand blade cheap and going to try it out on that.
Are you going to rebevel it and hone it with just the 4k/8k?Quote:
Originally Posted by chihwahli
From Bevel set to shave ready yes, as a touch up on a razor no. You will have a lot longer road to set a bevel on a 4K than if you had a 1K hone but it is not impossible. Only problem is one foul stroke and you will have to start all over, getting the experience to know if the stroke was foul is hard won. Only advice if you head down this road is to be patient and know the geometry of the razor you practice on because these two factors will effect your time on the stones. Rather get the 4/8 combo if this is your intention and send out the razor you want to practice on to a professional. Use the 8K edge to touch up your razors and if one gets stuffed up beyond your ability you can send it out and keep shaving with the second. Once you are competent with touch-ups move up to the 4K if the edge needs a bit harder work and then from there get a 1K stone to do a full bevel set on a fleabay razor. Of course I ignored all this advice and went straight for a full set 220/1K 4K/8K and learned the hard way (always an option).
You guys are right. It's not a good idea to use a 8K only. In combination with a 4K it saves me lot of time. I read some posts and looked how I can hone my 2nd hand Dovo carbon blade. Bought a 4K and 8K stone. Could not buy Naniwa or Nortons. Could not find a norton seller in The Netherlands. And Naniwa 4K was not sold in the online Shops I looked. I found a shop that sells Mcusta Zanmai stones. Their seem to be professional. After trying the Zanmai 4K and 8K, in combination with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=, I am quiet satisfied! I shaved myself and my skin is quiet smooth!
I did not want to learn honing on my new Dovo shaver . So I tried it out on an old Dovo carbon shaver. After doing as in the video, I could see the edge. Some parts are very shiny and some parts are not. I conclude with my green horn experience that the shiny parts are well honed and the not shiny parts did not touch the wet-stone very well. I shaved with it and the sound is less audible and I have shaved my cheeks very clean. What a nice feeling to archive that! I compared the Zanmai stone with the cheap Eden stones, that my younger brother, he's cook, is using. I tried the Eden 2K and 5K, but those stones become damaged very quickly! I damage it because I am not holding my straight shaver right. But honing with the Zanmai is great. Those wet-stones are very hard. They are cheaper than the Naniwa prof. stones. And the Zanmai are very thick too. I am thinking that my 8K Zanmai will last me 3 lifetimes if I continue to hone as in the video. =)
Hmm, I forgot something. AS I am typing this report. I remember that I forgot to strop my carbon blade!!!!
The funny part is that my shave is smooth. I did not feel any sting. But nevertheless, I should strop on canvas/leather the next time.
Where I bought the Zanmai wet-stones:
Slijpen | Japansemessen.nl
220 is too coarse not? Willthat not leave really deep marks in the razor? But 1K is used , as a very experienced shave honer (Lynn Abrams) uses it too, uses the 1K to set the bevel.
But I like to save some money. =p That is one of the reasons I go for 4K and 8K.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackers
As the video says: Bevel setting 4K, 8K for honing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMike
I could find no reviews written on their stones, though they do make very nice looking knives, with good reviews, I doubt they manufacture their stones and expect they are re-branded, which is not always a bad thing.
Because of the size, I suspect they are knife stones, which can perform very differently for razors, but every once in a while, you can get lucky and find a very good stone.
I am using a Nubatama 4k, that I recently purchased and it is an excellent 4k stone, (feels a lot like a Chosera 1k, but is hard and fast). I have also been using the Nubatama 1k for almost a year now, that out performs all my other 1k’s, (hard, fast, shallow stria pattern). Typically good synthetic knife stones require more water to keep wet.
So, all that counts is, if it works for you. Sounds like you need some good magnification though. A good Chrome Oxide will also give you, a more comfortable 8K edge. You can easily set a bevel on a 4k, yes a 1k is faster but not all that much, especially if there is no major damage to the edge.
What is the difference between a knife wet-stone and straight razor wet-stone? I thought you got wet-stones and they are
for making a cutting edge on anything...
What I did notice is that the cheap Eden 2K/5K stone creates bubbles as I soak it, but these Zanmai do not bubble at all (as far as I noticed).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
I thought you got wet-stones and they are for making a cutting edge on anything...
Razor honing is a very, very small part of the market, so we use stones formulated for other uses that work well for us. The synthetics we recommend are a short list of proven performers, for our limited use. Most knife and tools are finished at 1k, specialty knives at 4k and very few at 8k, (most recently). Stones that perform well for razors at 8K plus are few, just because of a lack of demand.
While the grit may be the same size, the type of grit or grit combination, the binders, and how they release grit, will deliver very different results. Many low priced stones contain very aggressive grits and weak binders which is why they will not hold water well and deform easily.
The science of high grit synthetic stones has made dramatic advances in the last few years, (probably fueled by the resurgence in cooking knives and hard, boutique wood working tool steels), and that is what you are paying for in a quality, high grit stones. A good set of razor stones is truly a life time purchase, you really don’t need that many.
The big difference in honing razors vs knives is comfort. A knife honed on a diamond plate will give a very toothy edge that will cut well for most knife purposes, but you could never shave off that edge, even after refining on finer stones and pasting, you may end up with a chippy edge. So the stone and technique you use at the beginning stages may impact the edge at the finishing stones. The razor edge is so thin that many factors affect its development. You literally are building an edge and every step in the process counts.
As I said these stones are not formulated for razors, it is trial and error finding stones that work for our purpose and that can develop both a keen and comfortable edge in a reasonable amount of time. For razors each is equally important. For knives or tools, no-one cares about comfort, meat and wood do not complain or bleed.
Then either I was lucky or I just found a new brand of Honing stones for the straight razor.
I soaked the stone for a very long time, because I was occupied with something else. They kept their shape.
And the shave was comfortable , even after forgetting to strop the shaver on canvas/leather.
Thanks for the extra info about the stones, I really did not have a clue what is important. It's just that I could not get my hands on Nortons or Naniwa's 4K and even 8K in my place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
Quick answer. Nope.
Thread coming (how sharp is sharp enough)
My general response to the original post: it is only slightly crazy. Lower grit stones help greatly with time and effort needed. I got a 12k as my only hone. It takes forever. And honing exclusively on high grits takes a special mix of caution and stubbornness.
My attempt so far...
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-his-hone.html
I received an reply from the seller of the Zanmai stones. He says that he frequently sells these stones together with a leather strop, ordered by customers.
Originally the 4K,6K and 8K are knife stones. So that is confirmed. If the quality of the Zanmai is constant and very usable for straight razors I cannot answer yet. Until more people try and post their findings online.
I noticed your join date. if honing razors is new to you I would suggest that you go to the library and go to you tube. there are some real fine videos by some of the best hone masters out there. Lynn Abrams, and a gentleman that goes by Ssixgun and many more . they show how to hone and what progressions to use what the preferred hones are and so on.. These are the folks that I and many more learned from. There are many hones out there and each brand is a little different in the way they work. many of us bought a load of hones just to narrow the field down to a few that we use. At any rate the info is out there and these guys here on the place are willing to share. good luck
Thank you. Your suggestions are solid. I saw a few video from Lynn and he gives nice details about Honing. it's because of his video, I was able to hone my first razor. Thank you again Rhensley.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhensley