Just picked up a Perl Duck Goldedge for what I think was a pretty good price. But when I was looking into Dubl Ducks, I saw that there are multiple edges, etc. can you guys help me understand what I just got?
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Just picked up a Perl Duck Goldedge for what I think was a pretty good price. But when I was looking into Dubl Ducks, I saw that there are multiple edges, etc. can you guys help me understand what I just got?
Attachment 210515Attachment 210514
This is from the listing. Hope it works.
OK, you meant grinds not edges. See here for an explanation of grinds The straight razor - Straight Razor Place Library .
Bob
There are SO MANY models of Dubl Ducks. They are ALL good! Goldedge seem to be the most popular.
Check out Those Daffy Ducks thread on here for all the info you could want.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...ffy-ducks.html
Oh yeah.
Be on the lookout for cell rot.
Just keep an eye out for it. These scales are kinda known for it.
It is where celluloid (which the scales are made from on these razors) off gases, which in turn causes the blade to corrode.
Celluloid was a common scale material once.
Not the best pictures, but I can help with two grinds:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4...psr19rpxyp.jpg
The top is a satin wedge (near wedge) and the bottom is a satin edge (hollow grind)
Here is a picture of the grinds:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4...psjxysqoik.jpg
They are both great shavers, nice find!
Looks like you got some good info that should help answer questions. I've been collecting a few months, but I still consider myself a beginner to straight shaving.
Yeah, I think the reason he called it 'edges' was because of DD's different names. Goldedge, Satinedge, Wonderedge,
Really looking forward to it arriving in the mail. Heard nothing but good about DDs.
DD is a very old outfit that sold many many different models over time. When the company changed hands the last time they branded the razors with edge as the last part of the name. DD never made anything they were a barber supply outfit and who made their razors is the mystery of the century.
Who made the ducks...
I may be way off here but the dubl ducks and some dovo models are very similar...
Attachment 210989
Attachment 210990
Actually, no, it isn't. They were made by Dovo in Solingen. Same as Beau Brummel and Otto Deutsch.
llalm is spot on with his observation that a Dovo 25 and a Dubl Duck Goldege share the same blades. "Same blanks", more precisely. If you compare real NOS 25s and their DD sisters, you will find that the scales look exactly the same, too (except, of course, for the bolsters). The "cracked ice scales" were originally bright white and are among the worst scales ever made. Just for the record, in the past, as today, there were companies specialising in OEM parts, among them scales.
And before another "but where is the proof????????" "discussions breaks loose, riddle me this:
Attachment 210992
Hint: there is no riddle. None at all.
Aww cute! Dovo and Dubl Duck made a baby for export to Syria.
الموس الاصلي
Quite cute, indeed.
هذه الموس مصنوع من قبل المتدربين . يمكنك بيعه للأميركيين مجانين للمبلغ خيالي في غضون بضعة عقود
DD had razors made for them by many manufacturers over their history. This includes manufacturers in the U.S and Germany and France. They also sold razors made by well known outfits with those outfits names on them and the DD logos too.
I hate it when people do that, but do you have any proof to back up that claim? I'm not being obnoxious, simply curious. Because when a former Dovo employee who's been with the company for decades tells me they made them, I tend to believe him.
Also, "make" can be a tricky term when it comes to razors. Like today, there used to be a manageable number of forging dies. The blanks were stamped with whatever the manufacturers ordered, ie more than one manufacturer used blanks from the same die. For example #14 (or #13, #12...) blanks. Then the razors were ground, polished, and sharpened by "a workforce". For values of "workforce" ≅ "people who were in the employ of the manufacturer". This may have meant "staff", "outsourced staff", or "freelancers" (including women, children, OAPs, and invalids, of which there were many, and who worked in Kotten).
Meaning, "brand X" may well have been made by "manufacturer Y", or even "Z knows whom". Which makes statements about brands, or models, which were across decades, ever so slightly absurd.
In the end, it doesn't really matter. Hess made fantastic razors - every bit as good as a Dovo 25, or a Dubl Duck. And Hess razors were positively, and provably, made in the US. If I had to wager a guess, I'd say from Solingen blanks, but that is just conjecture.
But yes, until proven otherwise, it is safe to assume that Dubl Ducks were made by Dovo. Unlike today, Dovo was an extremely well regarded manufacture, so Dubl Ducks having been made by them is actually an argument for buying them, not against.
A potential argument against buying them is purely anecdotal: "Those were for export, so we had apprentices make them until they were good enough at it to produce for the home market." And, "we made them by the tens of thousands, working by the piece. We worked so fast, we literally threw them into boxes to be finished by somebody else."
Nice razors still, except for the cracked ice scales. Those are atrocious.
So how would one old ex employee who made Dovo Razors for DD know that only Dovo made razors for DD exclusively???? We already know there were DDs made in France and I don't think Dovo ever made razors in France.
Dovo may have well been DDs major supplier however it's more likely to assume there were other suppliers just based on variety and models than to assume the latter based on one guys recollection of what he experienced in a limited sense.
That's why it's all a mystery. You would need to see DD's invoices to really know unless your man ran the production and spoke to the owner of DD about all their possible sources.
http://i.imgur.com/JjUsaMH.jpg
http://freelancechristianity.com/wp-...08/VgMKgyZ.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...43681e29ec.jpg
http://www.eduardosuastegui.com/wp-c...-causality.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FlCq3k1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cbqBrNf.jpg
Nelson, we've known each other for, what, ten years? You are not fooling anyone here. You are far too knowledgeable and intelligent to act in such an intentionally obtuse way without looking completely out of character. Just because maybe (and that is very, very, very big maybe) some Dubl Ducks may not have been made by Dovo doesn't mean that you don't stand a 99% chance of owning a Dovo if you own a Dubl Duck. Which is great news. Dovo made fantastic razors back then.
You are basing your opinion on what an ex employee said about Dovo and DD. How does he know where DD obtained ALL their razors from???? Show us the evidence.
I'm not saying Dovo didn't make razors for DD and they very well might have made most but all?
But Nelson, nobody said that Dovo made all Dubl Ducks. Except, of course, you. Therefore, here is a quick explanation of the logical fallacy you're committing (source Wikipedia, highlights by yours truly):
If that petty rhetorical trick is the best you can come up with, that's fine by me. In the meantime, may I gently remind you that you have still failed to deliver even a shred of proof that DDs were made in France or the US? Did you speak to anyone who was there when it happened? Or, better yet, are there any papers left? Because the archives in Solingen went up in flames in 1944.Quote:
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.
This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.
So, it's not really a big mystery. Just a lot of unnecessary drama. May I suggest that we leave it at that? We'll be running round in circles until you come up with proof that anyone except Dovo made these razors (by the way, I'm not arguing that anyone did, in fact I'd be mildly surprised if they didn't, because there are still thousands of them around, so chances are that over time, other manufacturers were involved, such as Puma). :)
It is simple, saying a Dovo employee told you something does not make it fact, basically it's hearsay. That is OK though because I think we are all "cleared to Rumour" on this forum.
Bob
You see, Bob, if you guys spent less money on artisan soaps and razors, and booked a trip to Solingen instead (granted, you'd have to learn the language first), you could actually find out for yourself. Since you don't, and since the RAF and USAF made some massive changes to Solingen's archives, "hearsay" is all you'll ever get. And you should be thankful for it, because there are only very, very few people alive who were there when it happened. I will, however, leave the rumour part to the guys with a vested interest here.
Funny though that no one has come up with any proof for Nelson's claim of DDs having been made in France and the US. I mean, you guys started this "but where is da proof????" silliness in the first place. Foot, mouth - you know?
For one presume far too much. I speak enough of the language to get by on visits to my family in Germany some of whom do live near Solingen.
You could add the RCAF into the mix of air-forces that bombed Germany in WWII destroying records and in the process making "hearsay" all that is left to go on. That puts any statements by anyone, you or TBS, into the "hearsay" class unless solid documentary proof is produced. So far I have not seen any documentary proof. No vested interest here just recognizing things for what they are.
Personally I am glad that there are still a few oldtimers left that can add to the knowledge base. I do take that knowledge with a grain of salt as an individual's experience and view of things is necessarily limited by their personal circumstances and prejudices.
At least that is my POV from behind the huge pile of artisan soaps and razors obscuring my vision that you presume I have difficulty seeing past. It is sometimes difficult to do so but we do try you know.
Bob
Time to put this all to bed.
A couple more examples....
Attachment 211160
Attachment 211161
Well, and then there's this:
- VINTAGE PEARLDUCK DUBLE DUCK GERMAN MADE FOR FRENCH USERS, WIDE 13/16" BLADE (06/12/2014).
- Nelson's razor clearly younger than 1927, but has no logo. How odd.
- Nothing in any French commercial registry.
- Nothing in any French razor forum.
And that's not mentioning that "Made in Germany" wouldn't exactly have gone down well with the French while Bresduck was operational.
But that's all circumstantial.
What would be more interesting would be a visit to Sabatier K, because Bresduck did have knives produced by them. Apparently. Maybe. Because Sabatier K had, and still have, their production facilities in Thiers, not Paris, but the knives say "Paris".
Either way, that's one, possibly two, razors vs. tens of thousands to come out of Solingen. I'd call that insubstantial. Which was the point all along.
Well done , now rumor is confirmed, they were made in other countries, but then again maybe the made in Germany stamp was faked and they were all made In Japan, I heard that from an old Spanish guy who worked in Nagasaki. Tc
You do realise that "now" is a strange term to use when we've known this for seven years?
Actually, that makes a lot of sense, given your track record with razor research. Thank you for proving my point.
After all is said and done I now know that DD SRs were made in at least 2 different countries but exactly who made them and in what numbers is still a matter hearsay and extrapolation. For me, I am willing to "believe" that it is "possible" that both Dovo and Sabatier K were some of the makers. For the most part it is still an interesting mystery.
Bob
Apparently, nothing gets done right unless you do it yourself...
Quote:
Stefan P. Wolf Mar 27, 2003
[...]
I just talked to Mr. Stremmel, the managing director of DOVO (32 years in the company if I remember correctly). Besides other stuff I asked him about the various rumours on DOVO making razors for other companies. This is what he told me:
DUBL-DUCK:
-----------
DUBL-DUCK was a trademark by the New York company PEARLDUCK (my remark: the first company name was BRESDUCK). About 10-15 years ago DOVO made DUBL-DUCK straight razors for Pearlduck. Obviously (see John's message) Puma did the same for some time.[...] [Source]
Not much to add, but both DD razors I own have pinning issues, warped scales and probably borderline cellrot. The satinedge honed up nicely, haven't tried the goldedge yet but sure it will take a good edge. In reality I wouldn't recommend purchasing one unless you are experienced in restoration and prepared to make new scales.
Wherever the blade came from, the supplier of the celluloid deserves a swift poke in the eye....
Well the first company wasn't Bresduck it was Bresnick and the razors were marked Bresnick or CS Bresnick. If you look at the Ducks going way back (and I have about 40 of them) you see the gradual evolution of the name from Bresnick to Bresduck to DD and you see the introduction of the duck logo first with no ducks and then one duck and then two. Bresnick owned the first two and then sold the company to one of his employees Mr Pearlson (which is where the Pearl in pearlduck comes from)who then changed the name of the outfit to DD and started using the cracked ice scales which pretty much defined most of their lineup. Also over time the outfit moved from lower Manhattan to mid town and then to Jamaica, Queens where it remained as DD until it's end. Actually that wasn't the end the outfit was again sold and moved to long island selling beauty supplies and the last time I heard they were in Westchester Co N.Y selling dog grooming supplies.
Really the fact Dovo made DDs is no mystery we all know Dovo has made and still makes razors for a bunch of other outfits like Col Conk for instance. No One ever said this wasn't the case (or at least I didn't). The question is did Dovo make every DD and that is where we disagree apparently. Absent evidence that says otherwise I remain with the opinion their razors came from more than one source. I guess someone should have asked Mr Pearlson who died several years ago (but not that many). Now it's too late.
But Nelson, nobody said that Dovo made every Dubl Duck. Everyone knows Puma made some. Most certainly other Solingen manufacturers, too, as stated previously. There are some very few, obscure Dubl Ducks of "mysterious" origin, possibly including France. And then there are thousands and thousands of Dubl Ducks that definitely came from Solingen.
Which means we do not disagree at all.
By the way, the gentleman's name was Perlson, not Pearlson, cf. http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi.../Pearlduck_Inc. ;)
PS This is funny.