Beginner with some problems

Hey All -

So I'm relatively new to SRP, and to straight razor shaving in general. I purchased a razor from a fellow Minnesotan in the classifieds, and it seems to be a pretty good quality razor for the price. It says "Le Grulet Hospita" on one side (I think the "L" has worn off of the engraving) and "Depose" on the reverse. See images here:

https://goo.gl/photos/T9HnyzkgxHwPAkTb7

It came "shave ready" from the seller, and he gives classes on how to hone, so I suspect it's actually pretty well honed already. That said, I'll probably refresh the hone as soon as I get my oxide crayon in the mail. Using the thumb test that Lynn shows in his honing youtube videos seems to indicate a good edge, and it definitely will take hair off my arm if I lightly run it against the grain, so I think the edge is good.

I have the following strop: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o00_s00 This is a pretty low-quality strop, and I bought it before I knew what I was doing. I strop the razor by running it over the black side (which seems coarser) 10-20 times, and then over the actual leather side (brown) 40-60 times. Both of the sides of the strop are leather, so I'm not sure what I should do first. I'm going to get a better quality strop, but this was probably good to get first, because I sliced into it a little bit when I was learning the pattern of stropping.

Anyway, to my problem. I am able to shave with my straight razor just fine. However, it doesn't get the shave quite as close as I would like. Namely, when I shave the sides of my cheeks from the sideburns to the jaw line, it's smooth if I run my hand (after the shave) down with the grain, but I can definitely feel hairs catching when I run my hand against the grain. On the chin and the jawline, I have a really hard time getting the hairs such that I can't feel them (really smooth). Often I have to shave once with the grain, once cross-grain, and once against the grain, and then go back and touch-up. This, obviously, leads to quite a bit of razor burn.

I'm thinking one of three things is a problem here. Possibly, it's my razor. I originally started with a gold dollar razor, but I was having these problems, and after realizing my mistake in purchasing such a cheap razor, I went with the Le Grulet one. Eventually, I'll buy a nice Dovo or other razor, but, for now, I'd like to perfect my technique before investing that amount of money in a high quality razor.

The next thing I was thinking is it could be the hone of the razor. As I stated, I think the razor is honed, based on the tests that I have done (and if I let my facial hair grow a bit, it does take it down to barely any stubble, but there is always some left over that I can't manage to get without burning my face worse than the sun).

Finally, the most likely culprit is my technique. I try to keep the angle of 1 spine width between the spine of the razor and my skin, but this is obviously hard to do around the chin area (which is why I seem to be having troubles possibly). I'm wondering if there is anything I might be able to do to help perfect this technique as I'm shaving (any tips or tricks on how YOU maybe learned to keep the angle correct). Also, I attached images showing my shaving angle, in general. I follow this procedure when I shave, too, so I don't think it's my prep:

1. Shower & wash face. (As I do this, I soak my badger brush in hot water in my scuttle)
2. Place a wet hot towel on my face for 30-45 seconds (about the time it takes for the heat to go away).
3. Lather my face with Catie's Bubbles shaving soap.
4. Rub in the shaving lather really well.
5. Strop my razor, allowing the soap to soak in.
6. Re-apply the hot towel for 30-45s.
7. Re-apply the soap (as some came off from the towel).
8. Shave, and as I do so, rinse the razor in hot water and rub off on a towel I have situated on the sink.
9. Apply lather and wood after shave. (After disinfecting cuts and splashing with cold water).

Thanks for any assistance you can give!

The first thing that comes to mind is skin stretching. This can help alot getting in closer, which will result in less passes, thus less irritation.

As far as being a beginner, the chase for a perfect BBS might not be in your best interest. Getting your stropping technique down is paramount at this stage, just after shaving technique. Go for close and comfortable.

Your pre-prep looks good. I never used a hot towel, but when I saw gssixgun's video on "the shave test", I do believe he wipes off all of the lather with the hot towel before reapplying.

It *could* be the honing, some are "keener" edges and some are more "comfortable". This is strictly a personal preference situation. I personally prefer my razors to be knocking on the door to a harsh shave.

The "rubbing off on a towel" does concern me a little. I usually use TP for better control and make sure you pinch the blade, with the spine pointing towards the palm and the TP wrapped around the spine. Usually 1 square folded in half twice. The edge should not cut into the TP whatsoever, it will dull the edge.

That's all I have for now, will update if I can think of anything else.

[edit]
I forgot to mention that I don't shave my chin. It is quite possibly the weakest skin in the world and breaks out like a prepubescent teen rubbing their face with fryer oil no matter what I do.

i would agree with dinnermints suggestions. i would also add that i have better luck shaving my chin from left to right across the bulb. i also have to settle for a DFS instead of BBS as a BBS as it always leads to bad razor rash.

Welcome to SRP from the east side of the river. [ST Paul]

Depending on what you think of relatively new is it seems you are doing well. Practice practice practice.

Nice razor. From the pictures I see relatively large scratches in the bevel. In pictures like that the bevel should be shiny. Unless I would hold it I don't know for sure but that makes me suspect of it being "shave ready".

You mentioned dinging your strop. Was it with this edge? Not good for the edge and a good example of why I wouldn't recomend a top of the line strop for a beginner and most of us don't have dads old one to use. A running thing between me and one son is that I many times use his starting something for a reason to give him my "old one" and I get a new one while he thinks that I give him old junk. Now that I am past raising my family and can afford top of the line I think so what. Sorry that I digress.:)

As far as your technique it comes down to practice. Read the advice here and develop your own technique. The internet is hard for me to understand what one persons definition of "light" is compared to mine. Use it as a starting point. You have to think a lot while learning but after a while you won't think about how far the spine is from your skin, your subconscious will do it.

Tim

First and foremost who honed it and leave CRoX alone till we figure out what you got, second stropping is the most important aspect of keeping a shave ready edge.
Next slow down and read a lot about starting out, just shave a portion of your face till your comfortable with the angles and pressure and your getting good results. The irratation is more than likely too much pressure combined with your edge. Look up mentors in your area and there are some good ones in Mn. Not to mention a couple pretty good guys with a hone.

I'll say it again slow down and quit looking for a perfect shave until you have perfected your technique, and that's months from now or maybe never, this ain't for everyone, especially if your wanting instant gratification. Good luck and search out mentors and one on one help. Tc

PM already sent but I'll say it here too. RandyDance is in St Paul and I am in Rochester. Either of us can help you sort this out. Help in person really is the most productive.

X2 on everything TC recommended. Judging by your pictures a couple things come to mind. First of all, and I mean no disrespect, you appear to be a young man so your skin will be more tender than us old guys. If you are shaving with the straight more than say two times a week try straight shaving a little less often and give your skin time to heal. I've been straight shaving for 45 years and my hide is tough enough to shave every day. You will get there too, just give it time. Last thing is your picture of shaving the chin. When you go around the bulb of your chin try clenching your lower lip between your teeth to stretch the skin. Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by jwir3

Anyway, to my problem. I am able to shave with my straight razor just fine. However, it doesn't get the shave quite as close as I would like. Namely, when I shave the sides of my cheeks from the sideburns to the jaw line, it's smooth if I run my hand (after the shave) down with the grain, but I can definitely feel hairs catching when I run my hand against the grain.
Nothing unusual here.
On the chin and the jawline, I have a really hard time getting the hairs such that I can't feel them (really smooth). Often I have to shave once with the grain, once cross-grain, and once against the grain, and then go back and touch-up. This, obviously, leads to quite a bit of razor burn.
It shouldn't unless something is wrong ie razor or technique.

I'm thinking one of three things is a problem here. Possibly, it's my razor. I originally started with a gold dollar razor, but I was having these problems, and after realizing my mistake in purchasing such a cheap razor, I went with the Le Grulet one. Eventually, I'll buy a nice Dovo or other razor, but, for now, I'd like to perfect my technique before investing that amount of money in a high quality razor.
Le Grelot is a top shelf razor & should outshave any Chinese RSO or modern Dovo.


The next thing I was thinking is it could be the hone of the razor. As I stated, I think the razor is honed, based on the tests that I have done (and if I let my facial hair grow a bit, it does take it down to barely any stubble, but there is always some left over that I can't manage to get without burning my face worse than the sun).
Could be the honing but your angle looks too steep & if you are not getting the results you want the tendency is to add pressure = bad idea

Finally, the most likely culprit is my technique. I try to keep the angle of 1 spine width between the spine of the razor and my skin, but this is obviously hard to do around the chin area (which is why I seem to be having troubles possibly). I'm wondering if there is anything I might be able to do to help perfect this technique as I'm shaving (any tips or tricks on how YOU maybe learned to keep the angle correct). Also, I attached images showing my shaving angle, in general.
Try even flatter. Even poorly honed razor will be more comfortable at a near to flat angle. Don't be concerned if you feel the spine on your face. A properly honed razor will shave dead flat on the face.

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Originally Posted by dinnermint

The first thing that comes to mind is skin stretching. This can help alot getting in closer, which will result in less passes, thus less irritation.

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Ah, yeah, that's great advice. I sometimes forget to stretch the skin a bit, so that's definitely helpful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinnermint

As far as being a beginner, the chase for a perfect BBS might not be in your best interest. Getting your stropping technique down is paramount at this stage, just after shaving technique. Go for close and comfortable.

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Yeah, I'm not going for that - I'm really, at this stage, looking to get close to what I get with a cartridge razor. I know it's an art, and I'll have to perfect it, but I guess I tried to go "cold turkey" from my Mach3. I just really want to get good enough at it (for right now), that I can get a comparable shave with my straight razor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinnermint

Your pre-prep looks good. I never used a hot towel, but when I saw gssixgun's video on "the shave test", I do believe he wipes off all of the lather with the hot towel before reapplying.

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Yep, that's where I got the pre-prep technique from. I basically copied gssixgun to the letter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinnermint

The "rubbing off on a towel" does concern me a little. I usually use TP for better control and make sure you pinch the blade, with the spine pointing towards the palm and the TP wrapped around the spine. Usually 1 square folded in half twice. The edge should not cut into the TP whatsoever, it will dull the edge.

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So maybe I should explain this a bit more. I got this technique from Lynn's videos, but it probably got corrupted along the way somehow. Basically, when I go to clean off the shave soap/hair that's collected on the razor after a couple of swipes (or maybe even one long one), I run it under the hot water I have running (just the blade). Then, so the blade isn't dripping wet (maybe it should be, but I didn't think it should), I lightly dab it on the towel that I've folded into quarters on the sink. It's mostly to remove the excess water, but it could be affecting the edge of the blade I suppose. This is probably slightly sloppy technique - I'll try wiping it the way you recommend and see if that makes a difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tintin

i would agree with dinnermints suggestions. i would also add that i have better luck shaving my chin from left to right across the bulb. i also have to settle for a DFS instead of BBS as a BBS as it always leads to bad razor rash.

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Thanks. I will try shaving the chin cross-wise instead of trying to do multiple passes. I'm just getting my technique down, so I watched a lot of videos, and it looked like just about everyone I watched did it vertically to begin with, and then went left to right. As I am gaining more knowledge, I realize there isn't a "right" way to do it, so I have to settle for determining somewhat what works for me.

I am really just trying for something close to my cartridge razor for now. I don't expect it's going to be BBS. I also don't expect it to be completely rash-free or even nick-free right now. I'm really just looking to get the technique down, while at the same time having to use my mach3 less and less (if at all). I do have patience, and I know this could take months, I just want to make sure I'm not developing bad habits by doing something totally wrong.

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Originally Posted by 32t

Welcome to SRP from the east side of the river. [ST Paul]

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Hey, thanks! I've gotten a warm welcome from other Minnesotans and everyone on this forum, so I'm really glad to be here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 32t

Depending on what you think of relatively new is it seems you are doing well. Practice practice practice.

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I picked up that gold dollar I mentioned about 4 weeks ago, and that was my first straight razor shave. After I realized I had made a mistake with that razor, I purchased the one I have now about 2 weeks ago, so I am probably more in the really new category than "relatively new". :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 32t

Nice razor. From the pictures I see relatively large scratches in the bevel. In pictures like that the bevel should be shiny. Unless I would hold it I don't know for sure but that makes me suspect of it being "shave ready".

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Yeah, it's possible that it might have a different edge than I was expecting (or maybe when my preferences are better attuned, than I would prefer), but the thumb test that Lynn shows on his honing videos do seem to indicate that it's sharp. It's also possible that my stropping technique isn't developed yet, and so that has affected the edge, as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 32t

You mentioned dinging your strop. Was it with this edge? Not good for the edge and a good example of why I wouldn't recomend a top of the line strop for a beginner and most of us don't have dads old one to use. A running thing between me and one son is that I many times use his starting something for a reason to give him my "old one" and I get a new one while he thinks that I give him old junk. Now that I am past raising my family and can afford top of the line I think so what. Sorry that I digress.:)

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First off, no need to apologize for the digression. Some of the reason I wanted to get into straight razor shaving is to be more in tune with the "old fashioned" way of doing things. That means listening (intently) to those who have come before you, so your experience and stories are always appreciated.

As for dinging my strop, I dinged it mostly with my first straight razor, but I think when I first got this razor and I stropped it for the first time, I also screwed up then. It's only on one side of the strop (the finer brown leather side). I watched a number of videos on stropping, but this definitely seems like something that you need to learn by feel. I should probably talk to one of the folks in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area and see if I can just get an in-person demonstration so I know my technique is ok before I continue to make mistakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 32t

As far as your technique it comes down to practice. Read the advice here and develop your own technique. The internet is hard for me to understand what one persons definition of "light" is compared to mine. Use it as a starting point. You have to think a lot while learning but after a while you won't think about how far the spine is from your skin, your subconscious will do it.

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Yeah, that's definitely the trouble I'm having. I watch videos and read a lot about this art, but in the end it comes down to the difference between my "light" and another person's "light". I'm an engineer, so if it were given in in-lbs of pressure perhaps I would be better able to understand it. (joking) :>

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

First and foremost who honed it and leave CRoX alone till we figure out what you got, second stropping is the most important aspect of keeping a shave ready edge.

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I'm pretty confident the person who honed it knows what they're doing. I purchased the razor from the SRP forum classifieds, and I have heard of this individual's reputation, so I think he's pretty good. Good advice on skipping the CrOx for now and work on my stropping technique.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

Next slow down and read a lot about starting out, just shave a portion of your face till your comfortable with the angles and pressure and your getting good results. The irratation is more than likely too much pressure combined with your edge. Look up mentors in your area and there are some good ones in Mn. Not to mention a couple pretty good guys with a hone.

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Yeah, like I mentioned in a previous post, it's not that I'm really in a rush or anything. I'm willing to devote the time necessary to perfecting this, but I just would like some confirmation that I'm starting correctly so I don't end up perfecting bad habits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

I'll say it again slow down and quit looking for a perfect shave until you have perfected your technique, and that's months from now or maybe never, this ain't for everyone, especially if your wanting instant gratification. Good luck and search out mentors and one on one help.

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Thanks for the tips!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Benz

X2 on everything TC recommended. Judging by your pictures a couple things come to mind. First of all, and I mean no disrespect, you appear to be a young man so your skin will be more tender than us old guys. If you are shaving with the straight more than say two times a week try straight shaving a little less often and give your skin time to heal. I've been straight shaving for 45 years and my hide is tough enough to shave every day. You will get there too, just give it time.

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Ah... yeah I didn't realize this would play a role. It literally never occurred to me that I might have slightly different skin simply because of my age. (That's not me being sarcastic, either. It really didn't occur to me). I have been trying to shave every day, so I'll tone it back and that will likely help some with the irritation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Benz

Last thing is your picture of shaving the chin. When you go around the bulb of your chin try clenching your lower lip between your teeth to stretch the skin. Hope this helps.

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Great advice, thanks!

Ahhhh, alright. I was just making sure you weren't wrapping the towel around it or something of the sort. A light spine leading stroke would do or tap the spine edge on your finger will get water off.

Also, happy to have another member who has gone through the rabbit hole of engineering maths! What branch of engineering?

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Originally Posted by dinnermint

Ahhhh, alright. I was just making sure you weren't wrapping the towel around it or something of the sort. A light spine leading stroke would do or tap the spine edge on your finger will get water off.

Also, happy to have another member who has gone through the rabbit hole of engineering maths! What branch of engineering?

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Hah! You'll probably laugh when I tell you - "software". (Although, I did complete most of the coursework for an EE degree, but decided to go with CS/Math with a focus in cryptology, instead).

Ah, CS/software engineering isn't bad. I have to bitch about someone when my CAD isn't functioning the way I want it to :D

Have you examined the direction of hair growth, on your face?

If not done already, try doing a pass with the grain (WTG), a pass across the grain (XTG), and lastly against the grain (ATG). You'll want to get most the hair cut before doing the ATG, and you can work up to it, over shaving sessions. Maybe starting with WTG, and then adding XTG, and then adding ATG to your process.

Lower the blade angle, as you do ATG, than with WTG.

Just some ideas.

One thing that helped me was to think in my mind to just lightly scrape the lather off. I'm not 'shaving whiskers' I'm 'removing lather'. That helps me keep that light touch. Also, as someone with coarse whiskers, I generally do a buffing stroke with the razor so I'm going over an area 2 or 3 times, lightly, before moving on. That keeps the face clean. Incidentally I have to do the same thing with a DE.

And it's nice to have one more code monkey on the forums. :-)

I've been shaving with a straight for years and I still regularly have to remind myself to use a lighter stroke.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I've been shaving with a straight for years and I still regularly have to remind myself to use a lighter stroke.

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+1 to that. I have to remind myself mid shave, or just go harder and faster. Not a good combo...

Jwir, I've been doing the SR now for two months after using a shavette since October of last year. I got to the point where me razor would not seem to shave anything besides arm hairs. I figured my stropping technique was suspect and I likely dulled the edge due to it. By the time I got a food technique, it was too late. So I set the SR down, took a break, and went back to the shavette.

This past week I got some CrOX after watching Lynn's videos on refreshing a razor. So I did about 12 laps on the grit followed by 20 on the webbing and 50 on the leather. Guess what? Shaves great! :) So sometimes when one seems to hit an impasse, taking a break often is the best thing to do.

I too dinged my strop at the edges by the handles. But I consider that now to be a signal to flip the razor when I reach them. The nicks are about 1.5" from the edge of the hardware so that will prevent me from flipping too late and whacking the hardware