Knife sharpening vs Razor sharpening - skill carry over value?

Hey, im wondering what ur guys view is on the difficulty of razor sharpening/honing and knife sharpening. And how ur view about skill cary over value, like if u can sharpen razor you can sharpen knives, or vice versa. I belive that razor honing is alot more harder and more difficult, i know many knife sharpening who does great knives, but they all struggle with razor. And with knife sharpening, i mean world class sharpening, im not talking about stainless steel knives(which cant hold an edge at all) I know for a fact that many sushi chefs and so on does use 12k stones and much higher jnats, and then strop. But does all rules for razor apply for knives, like using magnification and such?

Some of the skills carry over, some do not. They are VERY different tasks! I learned how to sharpen knives first, and had some trouble learning how to hone. Almost anyone can learn to hone, but you have to take the time to learn it properly. One of my friends here told me "you start honing where you would normally stop sharpening a knife" and that is very true but only the start. Everyone is going to give you different advice, but there are some things you will have to try to find out what works for you. Especially if you are an accomplished knife sharpener, you are going to have to watch some videos of razor honing pros like Lynn Abrams and Glen (gssixgun). You are going to have to be patient and expect some mess-ups. Practice on some old razors first!

For me, the only thing that carries over is the sound and feel of the blade on the stone.
A razor is sharpened differently than a knife, which is sharpened differently than a chisel, which is sharpened differently than an axe. It's all sharpening, but different techniques, pressure, and angles are used for each. You just have to use the correct technique for each blade type.

My carryover was two significant learnings rom razor to knife:
1. Set the bevel.
2. Use a Waterstone.

I'd used spiderco triangular ceramics on kitchen knives. It worked, but was very slow and on my harder knives it fatigued and chipped the edge.

Now using a 4k Norton waterstone freehand under running water. It's superfast. Leaves a slightly convex edge which is very durable, slightly toothy (8k stone gives a polished edge, but does not warrant the extra time on my kitchen knives)

Lastly, understanding what setting a bevel really means, changed my knife sharpening in that you understand that if the very edge of the bevel has not cleaned up, and the two surfaces have not met, that the knife will not and cannot be sharp yet.

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

Im sorry, i forgot to add to the post that i mean in terms of knowledge. Knowledge carry over. I belive if you have the knowledge and skills to hone a razor(setting bevel and everything) you then do have the knowledge to sharpen knives aswell. Ofcourse there are some differences, and the technique is obviously different, but that is only an small part of it, in my view sharpening is 70% knowledge, and the rest 30% is easly obtainble skills in technique, just takes a certain amount of hours practicing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamesalot23

!,,,,,,,,,,,,in my view sharpening is 70% knowledge, and the rest 30% is easly obtainble skills in technique, just takes a certain amount of hours practicing.

---

Is not obtainable skills,,, knowledge?

You have progressed in honing/sharpening when reach the point where you see each razor/knife as an individual.
Your carry over knowledge, are the skills you use to approach the task at hand.

The only carry over skill IME is the light pressure when sharpening/honing. Knives require quite the steady hand to keep the angles consistent.

I feel being able to hone a knife helped tremendously when starting to hone razors. Familiarity with stones, understanding grit and progressive honing, basic strokes, even pressure, light pressure, basic bevel setting, etc were all very helpful in honing razors for me. Those were all things I had a “leg up” on and more when starting to hone razors.

On the other hand, the experience and knowledge I have gained honing razors has brought my and tool sharpening to a whole new level also.

[QUOTE= Knives require quite the steady hand to keep the angles consistent.[/QUOTE]

Very good point. I can sharpen a razor a lot easier than I can a knife because the correct angle is built into a razor, you have to hold the correct angle and do it consistently when honing a knife to get one really sharp.

A bit off topic,
but the most significant carry-over I've experienced is from straight shaving back to DE shaving. After about a year of straight shaving, I find if I use a DE, the skill and knowledge gained from straights makes for sublime DE shaves.

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JHBBlade

A bit off topic,
but the most significant carry-over I've experienced is from straight shaving back to DE shaving. After about a year of straight shaving, I find if I use a DE, the skill and knowledge gained from straights makes for sublime DE shaves.

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

---

That has been my experience also. Nothing teaches you what a light touch and using the right angle like a straight razor.

And now back to our regular programing.

I'd have to agree with previous posters in that it is all sharpening be it knives, straight razors, chisels or scissors. That is where the similarity starts and ends. Some of the skills learned in honing straight razors carry over into sharpening the others but the techniques use are different.

There have been posters here that were new to straight razors and assumed that since they could sharpen a knife well they would find honing a straight razor a breeze to do. A surprising number have come back to ask what they were doing wrong honing since they had difficulty getting a straight razor shave ready sharp. I'd guess that if I were to get as serious about knife sharpening as I am with my straight razors I'd have difficulties getting the results I want with knives.

With reference to stainless steel straight razors of which I have a few. I have not encountered a problem with them taking and holding an edge as compared to regular carbon steel ones. My guess is that stainless steel knives that can't hold an edge were made from the wrong stainless steel alloy and/or were not tempered correctly.

Bob

for me SR honing is way different than knife sharpening.I can hone a razor but barely hone a knife to a shaving edge. Once i learned what sharp really is (from learning to hone a razor) I also learned what sharp isn't. Many a knife sharpener can hone a knife but not a razor.

They share common goals. Really those who say they are different and a razor is harder to sharpen are misleading those who already have knife sharpening skills and want to try honing a razor.

The basic steps are

1. Set the edge on a coarse stone (depending how dull, rounded, chipped the edge is)to establish a new cutting edge.

The level of coarseness will be on a case by case. Generally razors use a higher grit stone to establish the primary edge.

2. Refine the cutting edge using finer abrasives (stones/pastes) to the task that is required. I.e. push cutting hair or slicing sushi or cutting rope.

Again depending on what is required of the knife some Japanese chefs sharpen to 12k +.

3. Strop if required or steel to realign the edge.

Not every knife gets stropped but just as with a razor the edge gets damaged and misaligned due to impact so it needs to be straightened

They differ in the use of pressure and the use of different angles sure but sharpening knives is no different from razors.

Razors are easier because of the built in honing jig (the spine). Namely you can't change the angle that the edge is coming into contact with the stone during the stroke as long as the razor is held flat against the stone. Knives have to be held at a consistent angle which is more difficult and some cannot achieve freehand sharpening of a knife and rely on jigs to hold the consistent angle for them.

The biggest difference I noticed was that the type of edge I was chasing with the knife edges was less keen as what I was trying to achieve with the razor. No doubt because of what the task at hand is with either. This made me a big sloppier with my knife technique... Accepting less then perfect edges because it would still "cut".

That is just me personally but like I mentioned some people are routinely achieving a 12k+ on their knives.

When sharpening razors we don't use so much pressure that we flex the edge. I don't know why any competent knife sharpener couldn't lessen his/her pressure. If the sharpener is adept enough to finish a knife to a high degree of polish 8k+. They are not using high amounts of pressure on the finish stone just light pressure.

A little bit of technique adjustment and they really don't differ that much. Your average knife user probably uses less fine stones but with a set of finer stones(as long as they're willing to invest) they can easily sharpen razors.


Why this forum mystifies razor honing is unknown? It just takes time and practice to develop just like any skill.



Sent from my LG-K210 using Tapatalk

Level of difficulty in my opinion goes as follows from least hard to most difficult. The knowledge carryover is significant, but there are absolutely nuances in razor honing vs knife honing that actually hinder the learning curve as well in my experience

-honing a knife to an acceptable edge
-honing a razor to an acceptable edge
-honing a razor to an outstanding edge
-honing a knife to an outstanding edge

I think there are a lot of folks who think they can get a knife to a great edge, and are actually getting what I would consider an acceptable edge. getting a knife to an outstanding edge takes skill and experience beyond what most people care to think about

Yes Butzy. I think you've nailed it with the least to most difficult chart.

Sent from my LG-K210 using Tapatalk

For me, it was the other way around..

Razor Honing helped my Knife and Tool Sharpening, never really sharpened a knife/tool, I used those little sharpener things to try and keep them sharp,, Keep in mind if they cut a Tomato in the Kitchen with ease they are plenty sharp IMHO.
I would be more prone to buying New mower blades each year then ever thinking of sharpening one :) Now however I actually sharpen Mower Blade, Axes, Chainsaws Chisels, even Leather Tools and Lathe Gouges..
Perhaps it is the fact I have all the Stones, Hones, Wheels, and Belts to do so...

So I look at it in the reverse

True, it might really depend on what you started out with in the beginning...

I agree with SOLITARYSOLDIER. I used to be a knife nerd and always had trouble getting a consistent bevel. The built-in angle via the spine, the lesser amount of steel you have to remove, etc. all make honing a razor much easier in my opinion. I agree, honing is overrated. I can get a wicked edge on any of my razors (from pakistan or otherwise!) in 10 min with my chintsy set up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Knives in general only need to be sharp, honing beyond a few thousands in grt. is a waste of time. Unless it going to be used in combat.
I've been sharpening all sorts of things since I was 8 year old, starting with knives.
As criswilson10 said, its all in the techniques. Razors were a lot easier for me than for most. I guess because they have a built in honing jig called a spine, where a knife has to be gauged by hand and eye to keep the proper bevel. The hardest thing I've ever honed were the broadheads for my bow.

I'd argue that knife sharpening is harder in some ways (although in truth they are quite different skills); when sharpening a razor you lay the bevel flat on the stone (except kamisori) whereas sharpening a knife you have to learn the correct angles and different knives have different angles (German vs Japanese blades).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk