I honed my razor,but it wont pass the hht

It shouldn't be grabby, probably needs honing.

Your Norton 4/8K is all you really need. Finer stones are nice to have, I have one, I also have pasted strops, but I rarely use them as proper stropping on leather works just fine.

How much you strop is a matter of taste. 40 linen 40 leather works fine for me. Theoretically more passes will smooth things out more, but I can't feel it. Then again, I spent a lot of time outdoors so maybe my face is not as sensitive as some. As I said, it's a matter of taste.

HHT never works for me either, but my razors shave just fine.

The thumbpad test will tell you if its sharp, but not if its smooth. You will need to learn what sharp feels like.

Regarding the HHT, just ignore it. I will give you an example why.

I was at the MN get-together last weekend and Randy gave a honing demonstration. When finished, he passed the razor over his forearm and dozens of hairs just popped right off. He then gave the razor back to its owner, who also tried it on his forearm and the same thing happened. Now, I have never honed a razor that would to that to the hairs on my arm so I always wondered if maybe I actually sucked at honing. I had to know, so I asked for a chance with the razor. I passed it over my arm several times and not a single hair popped. They just bent over the way they always do when I test my razors that way. Now I was willing to consider the possibility that I sucked at honing but I was pretty sure that Randy did not. After all, I had just seen that razor pop the hairs off of Randy's arm. The lesson here is that everyone's hair is different and that makes the HHT a somewhat arbitrary test.

Lynn is right. The only test that matters is the shave.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Regarding the HHT, just ignore it. the HHT a somewhat arbitrary test.

Lynn is right. The only test that matters is the shave.

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I am totally down with this. Someone alot smarter than I said, "The HHT is a parlor trick". Your goal when honing is to provide an edge on the razor that will shave you comfortably. I use the thumb pad test to check the uniformity of the entire edge and I am very good at determining if a razor is ready for a "shave test" by passing it across my arm hairs. This (in my estimation) is the most dependable test of sharpness. I simply pass the razor up the back of my forearm with the spine against my skin and the edge lifted two or three millimeters off the skin. A good sharp edge will "pop" the hairs off the arm with no contact of the edge with the skin.

I do the same test on my forearm. I have very fine hair on my arms, so this proves to be a very good test for me. A razor that shaves but not well will not pass this test (well) for me, but one I just honed up and stropped tonight took off almost every hair it touched on my arm, so dozens at a time. It also passed the HHT every time with even very fine hair. But, this is what works for ME and for MY hair. What everyone else is saying is very true, these tests are not by any means the be-all and end-all. The bottom line is: some tests work for some, and some for others. Just find what works for you. Having it shave well for you is all that matters, that's the only true test.

Dave

In my humble opinion:

The shave test is about proofing.
The other tests are about probing.

Big difference.
But still, they all can be valuable, if you learn how to do them and how to read them.

For shave proofing, you got to know how to shave. (beard and skin type are variables)
For the TPT you got to learn how it feels. (skin type and roughness are variables)
For the HHT you got to learn how to read it. (hair type and oiliness are variables)

If you get in front of an audience and do the HHT, then it's a parlour trick.
Showing of how you dare touching a blade with little slicing motions during the TPT is a parlour trick.

If you incorporate a well-calibrated version of the HHT or of the TPT into your sharpening practice, then it's a honing aid.
I encourage any beginning honer to give them all a fair shot and see what works best for him.

In the end, the shaving proof is all that matters, but it would be hard for me to get there without intermediate tests. For instance, I use a sort of HHT along the edge to find out if my bevel is good, coming off a DMT1200. I can't imagine shaving with the razor at that point, and I'm not even sure it would tell me what I need to know at that point. When I, next, progress to a Belgian Blue I use the TPT to assess when sharpness maxes out on that hone. Again, I can't imagine shaving patches of my face instead of performing TPTs.

I wish people would stop dismissing tests as unreliable, just because they didn't work out for them, or because they didn't personally find use for them.
They're just tests, no need to be anal retentive about them. (:thinking:taking as much to myself as to the guys dismissing them;))

Bart.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bart

In my humble opinion:

The shave test is about proofing.
The other tests are about probing.

Big difference.
But still, they all can be valuable, if you learn how to do them and how to read them.

For shave proofing, you got to know how to shave. (beard and skin type are variables)
For the TPT you got to learn how it feels. (skin type and roughness are variables)
For the HHT you got to learn how to read it. (hair type and oiliness are variables)

If you get in front of an audience and do the HHT, then it's a parlour trick.
Showing of how you dare touching a blade with little slicing motions during the TPT is a parlour trick.

If you incorporate a well-calibrated version of the HHT or of the TPT into your sharpening practice, then it's a honing aid.
I encourage any beginning honer to give them all a fair shot and see what works best for him.

In the end, the shaving proof is all that matters, but it would be hard for me to get there without intermediate tests. For instance, I use a sort of HHT along the edge to find out if my bevel is good, coming off a DMT1200. I can't imagine shaving with the razor at that point, and I'm not even sure it would tell me what I need to know at that point. When I, next, progress to a Belgian Blue I use the TPT to assess when sharpness maxes out on that hone. Again, I can't imagine shaving patches of my face instead of performing TPTs.

I wish people would stop dismissing tests as unreliable, just because they didn't work out for them, or because they didn't personally find use for them.
They're just tests, no need to be anal retentive about them. (:thinking:taking as much to myself as to the guys dismissing them;))

Bart.

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+1 Excellent! I hone 20 to 30 razors a week. I use a microscope to check the progress at each stage of honing. I use a TPT sometimes to verify. I don't have enough hair to do a HHT. :mad: As what has been stated before, IT'S THE SHAVE that is the ultimate test. If you want to find out what sharp feels like, you can use a DE razor blade and develop a sense of touch with this blade.:gl:

Although certainly not an expert, what I have garnered from the posts I have read over time is that some people use it religiously. Can't say that's a minority. But to me the HHT is something to impress your friends; the application of the edge to your face is the only test that matters...

Thanks for the insite guys,and yes I was just looking to get the razor as sharp as possible not just to chop a hair in half. I did a couple more swipes on the 8000 and ran it on the linen about 50 times and on the leather about 100 times and now she shaves a solid 100% better.

i have now come to the conclusion that my hair is much too inconsistent to use the HHT. i usually run my hands through my hair to try and get one and the variety of thickness of hair is pretty ridiculous. i'm not saying that a sharp razor shouldn't cut them all, but i am saying that a razor in the honing process for me is more reliably tested with the TPT and forearm test. i have been getting a lot more used to the TPT. i'm a noob though so we'll see where i go from here.

Hello Erik, the above posts about the shave being the best test is absolutely correct. I never could get a good shave on the Norton 4K X 8K when I first started and until I got a finishing hone it stayed that way. There are several finishers in the 12K to 16K range that work well. For a new straight shaver getting into honing I would recommend a two sided paddle strop with 1.0 micron diamond on one side and .5 micron CrO on the other. This will finish your blade to shave ready. You have the lower end covered with your Norton. Keep reading the honing sections and you will get a feel for it.

bj