help needed...considering giving up!

Hi there. Im on about my third month of straight razor shaving. I have been a wet shaver all my life, and was having spectacular DE shaves prior to the switch. I gave that up for the lust of the straight....

I have made great improvements, and have learnt a great deal, but i have hit a huge brick wall and this is wearing me down. Im close to jacking it all in and i need help...

I have a Wapi that I purchased shave ready from the Invisible Edge. I strop on canvas and leather approx 50x each prior to shave, and then again 20-30 of each after the shave. Im pretty certain that my stropping technique is sound.

Last month I felt that the edge needed a refresh, and so i purchased a nanwia 12k which seemed to work really well at bringing back the edge. I felt the difference. (Having said that there are 2 or 3 very small but visible chips/imperfections along the edge, which the 12k was unable to get out.) Again, im pretty certain that my honing technique is sound.

I know my shave prep is good. Always hot shower taking extra time to soften beard, followed by a good amount of face lathering time with a EJ best badger brush and quality products such as trumpers creams, soaps, castle forbes or tabac etc.

So the actual shave....

I shave every other day (all my life, my skin has been in better condition if i shave every other day as opposed to every day...this seems to be no different with the straight).

My beard is very coarse. I am the stereotypical dark, thick haired greek...i liken my beard to that of Steve Carell if that helps the description.

I get very good shaves on my cheeks. WTG, XTG (both directions). My neck is acceptible (always have been very sensitive there). The problem areas are the chin and just under the jaw line.

Fristly, regarding the chin...the first WTG pass is a decent pass. I get good easy beard reduction. But the problems begin trying to get any closer than that. It seems no matter the blade angle, no matter the cut direction, no matter the pressure i use, no matter where i pull my skin, or how hard i pull, the hairs will not cut well at all. ATG is the only thing that works, but my god does it tear my skin up. I get nicks all across my chin that way. I end up spending a solid 5 mins doing touch up passes on small patches of my chin, shredding up the skin as i go. Even then the results are patchy. Im not even searching for BBS here...simply a good, even shave! This was never ever a problem with my DE. Even a gilette sensor excel used to do a far superior job! I know people will probably tell me that for ATG passes you need to reduce the blade angle, reduce pressure etc...but i really have tried everything! I doesnt work!

Regarding just below my jaw line. I have very hard to reach spots...where no matter how i position my blade, I cannot get a good cut. I pull the skin upwards, downwards, angle my head in thousands of different positions...Just cant get the right position. I always end up with a rough patch in this position on both sides of my face, with the surrounding skin a little raw from trying to get to them.

As I said, the shave on my cheeks is great, but these two problem areas are frustrating me tremendously. Last night I almost threw my razor against the wall in anger. Ill repeat that im not even going for BBS. I just want them smooth and not randomly patchy. So I would really appreciate your input. Do i persevere? Or do I go back to my DE where I can get perfect shaves every time with perfect skin to show for it (not sexy, but very effective)?

Many thanks in advance.

i go head and say (although i know i will get blame) first your razor is not shave ready. Second you dont have qualty blade. resolve your problem you need to get your blade sharpen some honers which will help you to see and feel how shave ready blade looks like. Lastly when you are in good financial situation please buy qality blade..(i should say this at the momentwhat i think about wapi. i am inprocess testing new wapi .will have definitley opinion about it in a mounth .gl

It might be worthwhile investing in another blade. From what I understand Wapi's are a good blade (mine is in the process of being customised), but might be a bit of challenge if it is your first honing attempt.

I have had some success with Bengall blades and I am sure some more senior members can recommend a other brand that might be worth a look.

Ohhh....and don't give up!!!!! :)

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Originally Posted by hippy

Regarding just below my jaw line. I have very hard to reach spots...where no matter how i position my blade, I cannot get a good cut. I pull the skin upwards, downwards, angle my head in thousands of different positions...Just cant get the right position. I always end up with a rough patch in this position on both sides of my face, with the surrounding skin a little raw from trying to get to them.

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If you're not already doing this, I suggest trying to use both hands. When I first started, I found it difficult to shave those same areas until I started using my left hand (I'm right-handed). Now, I use my left hand just as much as my right, and my shaves have improved dramatically.

Also, getting a good shave-ready razor might help. I suggest getting one of Ken Rup's (RupRazor) Gold Dollar razors -- you get a new, shave-ready razor for $45.

Good luck! Please don't give up. In the end, it will be worth the effort. Keep us advised of your progress.

thanks very much for the input so far. To clarify, I do already use both hands without any preference for one hand over the other.

I have had a similar problem with the patch beneath my bottom lip. Gillete, DE, Straight, Sensor, SE, nothing seems to be able to get that patch smooth, no matter how I stretch the skin, no matter how many passes from a dozen different angles I try. I have just kind of grown to accept it. But if you have had good results in the past... You really might just be better off going back if you enjoyed the shave just as much.

Hi Hippy,

If the blade is in question I'd just get one of these:

RupRazor - Gold Dollar

Cheap and cheerful. I've had some of the best shaves of my life with a cheap gold dollar.

My advice - watch the videos again; read the wikis again; sit on the couch with a blunt razor practicing all the strokes/techniques;

and I'd suggest using cold water. It tightens the face, there's no burn afterwards, you have to use a good technique or it won't work, and it's very refreshing.

All the best

Rob
:)

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Originally Posted by DPflaumer

I have had a similar problem with the patch beneath my bottom lip.
nothing seems to be able to get that patch smooth, no matter how I stretch the skin, no matter how many passes from a dozen different angles I try. I have just kind of grown to accept it.

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ATG too?

message too short

Yep. Every angle, all kinds of stretching, everything. Some days I just directly to the ATG pass and just try three of those instead. No matter what, it just won't come smooth. It isn't really a big deal like the chin would be, but it is slightly frustrating all the same.

The sharper the blade the closer the shave. IME this applies even more around the Adam's apple. Too many passes and you cut your skin up.

A razor that lacks a bit in sharpness gets you great results on the cheeks but much less under the chin is my experience.

I have always had great shaves from my Wapi but IME again, you get better edges with with higher grit hones or pasted strops. If that does not work try a razor with harder steel, e.g. a Friodur.

There may be a honemeister near where you live that might help you out before you start investing heavily.

My 2 cts.

Dont give up...!

PM sent.

-S-

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Originally Posted by DPflaumer

Yep. Every angle, all kinds of stretching, everything. Some days I just directly to the ATG pass and just try three of those instead. No matter what, it just won't come smooth. It isn't really a big deal like the chin would be, but it is slightly frustrating all the same.

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Do you push out the skin with your tongue? I've found that works for me. Another thing is I get better results in that area with a full hollow. I think a more flexible blade helps.

Anyway, good luck with that. One of the things I love most about straight shaving is finding solutions to these kinds of problems. How do I...:idea:

Yep, I've tried pushing it out, I've tried everything from full hollow to wedge, it is just a stubborn spot I guess. Oh well.

def don't give up, as many have recommended practice, and invest in a good shaver, also your right in thinking that your hair is unlike most...like mine it could be used as hypodermic needles and i have to shape up the edge more frequently than others! also do what you can on the two or three pass then take up your DE again and get what you missed it will come if not like DP said some of us will just have to understand there are areas that just have that no joy frustrating hair patch!

start looking i say at your local antique shops...i've been hitting gold constantly..and for under 20$ also...

never give up!
Wulfgar

I agree with Sham, and with Kees that your razor is probably not up to par in the sharpness dept. Even if your honing stroke is right on a 12k will only refresh the edge for so long before you need to redo the bevel and sharpen it again on the lower grits.

I assume you leave your chin for last ? Years ago Gillette had instructions that recommended leaving the lather on the goatee area until everything else was shaved. That is the toughest area for all of us if I am not mistaken and leaving the lather on longer will soften the whiskers a bit more.

When doing prep I wash and rinse my face twice and vigorously. I really press hard on the whiskers on my chin and jawline. I learned this from how a barber prepped my face for a shave when I was a young man. I also lather in a bowl because , for me anyway, I get a far superior lather than if I face lather.

Finally as Wulfgar said if you have to there is no shame in using a DE or whatever your choice is to clean up what you couldn't get with the straight until you get this sorted out. I suppose it is a bit of a hassle but better than tearing your chin up. :gl:

I had the same problem, even though probably less than you are describing. I got better results after using a Chinese 12K to freshen the edge. Glen then offered to hone my blade and I cannot believe the difference! I now get BBS on my throat and chin with just a WTG and ATG. I also get far less razor burn/razor bumps.

You mentioned that there were chips visible on the edge. That is what is tearing your skin up and the only resolution that I know of is to do a restoration on the hones. You would need to start with a low grit stone (such as a 250) and move up to the 1,000 followed by the 4K and 8K with polishing the edge with the stone you currently have as the final step.

BUT, you need to get one of the honing experts to hone your razor before you try your hand at the restoration.

If that doesn't improve your shaves you might be best to return to the DE or make your initial passes with the straight and touch up with the DE but get the edge restored!

Good luck and keep us informed.

hippy,

Others have offered good advice here. It does sound like your blade might not be as sharp as it should be since you said there are visible little chips in it, but I have to disagree with Sham. I have 3 NOS Wapi's that I honed up and they are great shavers.

Where do you live? If you are in the US, I'd be happy to touch up your razor for you to get it back where it should be (just take care of shipping is all.)

Like a previous poster said, a high grit hone like you are using isn't going to get those chips out.

Also, I understand the difficulty with the chin area. This can be a hard area to get since you have to constantly adjust your angles. Where around your jawline are you having trouble? Hard for me to understand from your post, maybe some pics would help.

Keep the faith, and if you want help with the blade, PM me.

Around the chin is the hardest part for me. I nick myself at the bottom of the chin-bulb nearly every day. Just little ones that stop bleeding with cold water applied. But I'm getting better with continued experience.

This area being so difficult to shave may explain why so many straight shavers have "van Dykes".

I suspect that since you mentioed visible chips in the blade that that is where your problem is. If you want to keep the blade then I'd go down to your nearest Home Depot and pick up a 640 grit hone and get those chips out. From there you would need a Norton 4k/8k and finish with a paddle strop treated with Chromium Oxide paste.

Rich

“Be respectful to your superiors, if you have any” – Mark Twain

I hear ya. This can all be frustrating, but before you give up I have a couple suggestions.

1. Get your razor sharpened and evaluated by one of the honemeisters here. At least you'll know the problem isn't the razor, or maybe it is.

2. I have the same problem under the jawline. I fixed it by pulling up hard on my cheeks, as I work my way down, and shave that area up higher on my face instead of trying to shave on my jawline. When you let go you'll find the only thing left is your neck. You can work the rest of your face the same way.

As a newbie I find I can get a better shave all around with a DE. But, I find shaving with the STR8 an addiction and a challenge I can't seem to stop. I wish my beard grew faster. :)

Ziggy it's funny you should say that...i wish my beard would not grow faster, but all in all my shaves are cut down now because the SR makes it smooth for longer..for sure!

be good gents!
Wulfgar

I just bought a small Wester Bros razor to use on and under my chin because I have fairly sharp features, and the large blades I have seem to have trouble there. I've only got a couple shaves with it so far, so I'll let you know once I'm really comfortable with it, but it seems to help. You might consider something like that. I believe it's a 5/8 width, but the length is about 1/2 inch less than standard.

I wanted to thank every one for taking the time to help me with my little problem. The general consensus seems to be that my blade may be out of shape. Further supporting this idea, last night I shaved with my DE for the first time in months and I have to say that i cant believe how much relative discomfort I have been putting up with from my sub-par Wapi edge. No wonder I have been so frustrated! It is very clear to me now that balde needs some real attention.

I will take the advice and get it professionally rehoned, and then give it another go. Ill keep everyone informed.

Many thanks!

When you get your razor back keep in mind that a DE pretty much sets the angle for you, and if you follow a curve the blade will just follow the handle. With a STR8 "you" have to set the angle, and keep the angle especially when going around a curve. So, watch those angles.

Also, I know there are two rules of thought on this, but even though I'm right-handed I forced myself to use both hands and it really helps. What becomes awkward with my right becomes easier with my left, and I can now easily switch hands as I move from one side of my face to the other. It's not that hard -- just go slowly and be careful you don't pause with the razor against your face. That's where all my cuts come from.

Keep us posted on your progress, and whether a sharp razor makes a difference.

So just out of curiosity, I attempted a hanging hair test using my Wapi. Did not pass at all. I had to wrap my wife's long head hair around my finger and pull that hair very tought between finger and thumb and push the blade pretty hard into the hair before it cut. So i have definatley got the dullest blade in the world. I guess its all starting to make sense now....
Its amazing that I was having as much success on my first pass as I was.

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Originally Posted by hippy

So just out of curiosity, I attempted a hanging hair test using my Wapi. Did not pass at all. I had to wrap my wife's long head hair around my finger and pull that hair very tought between finger and thumb and push the blade pretty hard into the hair before it cut. So i have definatley got the dullest blade in the world. I guess its all starting to make sense now....
Its amazing that I was having as much success on my first pass as I was.

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The HHT isn't necessarily THE thing to turn to when checking for shave ready. It's finicky, and different ppl get different results. Best test is shaving. From what I hear, thinner hair can be a problem as well.

From personal experience, I can tell you not to place too much emphasis on the HHT. Also consider using the thumb pad test; but, ultimately, the only really meaningful test is the shave test.