Help with my edge

Hi, I just became a member here in hopes of learning more about SR shaving. I stumbled into straight razors looking to improve my woodworking tools with leather strops. After reading about straight razors and strops I was instantly intrigued by it all and I soon spent lots of time researching razors, shaving ect. on you tube and this website. After taking advice from these forums I bought a Dovo (5/8 full hollow carbon) razor and Illinois strop w/linen from classicshaving.com. Everyone seems to say that new razors are not shave ready so I bought the one that said "professionally honed" thinking that it would be shave ready over the "factory honed" option at a lesser cost.

When I got my new razor and strop I could hardly wait, I shaved and not too bad for a first time shave. Hardly a nick but not perfect around my neck and jaw bone (little scary in there but I'll get better:) My flat areas were great, best shave for sure and I'm loving the fact that I'm getting into this.

My problem started on my second shave. I watched and read a lot on stropping before doing it. Some said focus on the spine and let the edge follow so as not to roll the edge over. 30-60 laps or so. Some say to use the linen first 10 or more laps to heat the blade before the leather. I though my stropping was fine but it obviously wasn't. My blade began catching the hairs, though I did get a full shave it was not that comfortable. By my third shave I was really catching my hairs to the point that I feared something was really wrong with the edge and I shouldn't have to push the blade though the hairs or for sure I would be cutting my self (as a dull edge is more dangerous than a sharp one on all things)

So in order to understand how to correct my problem, could someone explain what causes the blade to catch? Did I roll the edge over by stropping too hard or did I not strop with enough pressure and the edge never straightened out? Or, did the professionally honed option not really mean shave ready and it needs to be honed?

My opinion last weekend was that maybe it wasn't shave ready. Here I may have gone and done it. As a finish carpenter I spend a bit of time sharpening tools and feel comfortable with honing. I went out and bought a King water stone kit 800-4000-6000 w/nagura. I tried just a few laps on the 4000, then the 6000 with the nagura. Then to the strop and to the face. It still catches, probably worse yet. I just watched Lynn from SRP's you tube clip on honing to a pyramid from 4000-8000 back and forth from 15 laps down to one. Before I go any further I need to know why blades catches and if I'm just screwing things up. I know I should probably buy a used razor from someone here but I need to learn and the only way that I learn is from asking others then practice. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I really want to get back to shaving soon!

pics would help us to help yer problem better...:popcorn:


pcdad

pics of what I bought?

yes...if you use 1 million words compared to 5 good pics..I think the pics would help more with your problem description..of course

pcdad

Hi,

Hard to say without the pictures of your edge, but it might be that you rolled the edge while stropping. Remember that it takes some time to learn how to strop. There are some fine videos on YouTube about stropping. You could also search Wiki for stropping tips.

If you are already a woodworker then it is no magic for you to get the blade honed. You could also check for classifieds to get yourself a shave ready razor: Once you know what shave ready means then it is easy for you to hone one by yourself.

At first Welcome to SRP.
At the moment there is no way someone could tell what was your exact problem.
Your blade was shave ready?
or your stropping dull the blade
or your honing.
Please don't get me wrong.
i have no doubts about your sharpening ability.
The razors are a little different then another tools when you sharpen them.
This is why So many people (mostly knife sharpeners)
when start to hone blade they get a little confused.
do you have only 1 razor?
if answer yes please do contact the seller and i am sure they will take care of it.
if you do have another razor and you are unable to get your blade sharpened by vendors then i would be gladly take a look at your razor.
(it is free you have to only pay for postal stamp.)
About the stropping.
please check this post and there is a video take a look it may help.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...technique.html

not first video scroll down you will see.
About your stones.
i don't think you would be able to get your blade shave ready condition (true shave ready) what you have at the moment.
6000 is way low grit.
Let me know.
thank you and enjoy with straight razor shaving.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pcdad

pics would help us to help yer problem better...:popcorn:


pcdad

---

Uhm really? You can tell from a picture problems with an edge that shaves uncomfortably?




OK, unless there is something drastic on the edge pictures won't help and if there is you would notice it yourself. So, let's move on to figure out what may be the problem.

If you kept the spine on the strop and the strop not too sagging chances are you haven't rolled the edge. Especially since the differences you are describing are developing gradually.
I'd say you just need to strop the razor better.
So, first lay the strop flat on the table or counter, that would eliminate the flatness issues.
Then strop 50 times on the linen keeping the spine in contact with the strop. Examine the edge with a wet thumbpad before and after. You should notice a bit of a difference.
Repeat with 50 laps on the leather. Report back if you notice any changes.

Also post where you are located and there may be somebody nearby who would be willing to provide hands on help.

If you take Sham up on his very generous offer (GO !!!!! SRP)
He might be able to tell you what the problem was before, he fixes it...
Sometimes it is rather tuff to figure out what caused the dulling but at least he can try...


Nice offer from you Sham :beer2: have a beer...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beretta96man

Did I roll the edge over by stropping too hard or did I not strop with enough pressure and the edge never straightened out? Or, did the professionally honed option not really mean shave ready and it needs to be honed?

---

If stropping too hard is even part of the picture in your mind, you likely are. When stropping, it should be the weight of the razor, not you pushing down on it. If you are putting pressure while stropping, it is easy to roll the delicate edge of a straight.

If you got your razor from straight razor designs, and it was honed by Lynn, it should be fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

At first Welcome to SRP.
At the moment there is no way someone could tell what was your exact problem.
Your blade was shave ready?
or your stropping dull the blade
or your honing.
Please don't get me wrong.
i have no doubts about your sharpening ability.
The razors are a little different then another tools when you sharpen them.
This is why So many people (mostly knife sharpeners)
when start to hone blade they get a little confused.
do you have only 1 razor?
if answer yes please do contact the seller and i am sure they will take care of it.
if you do have another razor and you are unable to get your blade sharpened by vendors then i would be gladly take a look at your razor.
(it is free you have to only pay for postal stamp.)
About the stropping.
please check this post and there is a video take a look it may help.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...technique.html

not first video scroll down you will see.
About your stones.
i don't think you would be able to get your blade shave ready condition (true shave ready) what you have at the moment.
6000 is way low grit.
Let me know.
thank you and enjoy with straight razor shaving.

---

First off, thank you to all for your advice. I'm a bit unsure if this is replying to all or one so I hope I clicked on the right thing. I take no offense to not sharpening a razor properly or the stropping. I'm new to this level of edge sharpness and expect to be on a learning curve for a while. I live in Duluth, Mn and will try to update my profile soon.

I'm not sure that I can get a quality picture of the edge as I can't see any thing with my eye, maybe if I had some type of microscope?

I got the razor from classicshaving.com because I saw guys suggesting to use their sharpening service when buying the first razor. I thought the "professionally" honed razors was them honing it but maybe I should have asked them and it wasn't. I'll contact them and ask.

I don't feel like I put too much pressure on the blade when stropping. I'm just grasping at things to understand why its going dull. (since I did shave ok the first time I figure it's my stropping, either too light or hard) I think I will try the table method Gugi. Thank you very much for your generous offer to look at it Hi Bud gl. If all else fails and the vendor won't look at it I may take your offer but I'm sure they will as they advertise a sharpening service.

Maybe I just don't strop enough. I did cut my thumb pad quick and deep by accident opening it the other day so it is sharp to a point:) Being a newbie, all the videos in the world are no match for personal instruction but I will be viewing more for sure until I get this. I'll try the 50/50 laps and let you guys know if it worked.

the primary cause for the edge dulling is oxidation, not mechanical damage, so the main goal of stropping is to remove this oxidation and then realign the mechanical deformations.
so while the edge is indeed very delicate it is still steel and that's pretty robust. as long as the spine is in contact with the strop there really isn't much damage that you can do even if using pressure as the stropping surface basically moves along the bevel. the rolling of the edge occurs if the spine is lifted as then there is a force perpendicular to the bevel.
so there is no need to be too timid with the stropping, just common sense will be good.

as far as i understand classicshaving offers razors with the factory edge and honed past that and since you got the one that's been honed it should be good. some time ago they utilized the services of Lynn Abrams, but not anymore, still whoever does their honing should be doing at least a reasonable job at it. as i said since the edge is deteriorating over subsequent shaves the most likely cause is ineffective stropping and this should still be fixable. if not you have other options, so one way or another we'll get you going and successful. nothing to worry about.

there are a whole bunch of members in MN, the two off the top of my head are chrisl and bruce, not sure about randydance. In any case they would probably know of somebody nearby you, if there's one.

One thing you may have is metal particles on the edge. If you were to buy a mini-microscope from radio shack priced at about $13.00, you could look at the edge and tell more of what is going on and describe it to us better. We are just quessing even quessing if it has been hand honed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gugi

Uhm really? You can tell from a picture problems with an edge that shaves uncomfortably?




OK, unless there is something drastic on the edge pictures won't help and if there is you would notice it yourself. So, let's move on to figure out what may be the problem.

If you kept the spine on the strop and the strop not too sagging chances are you haven't rolled the edge. Especially since the differences you are describing are developing gradually.
I'd say you just need to strop the razor better.
So, first lay the strop flat on the table or counter, that would eliminate the flatness issues.
Then strop 50 times on the linen keeping the spine in contact with the strop. Examine the edge with a wet thumbpad before and after. You should notice a bit of a difference.
Repeat with 50 laps on the leather. Report back if you notice any changes.

Also post where you are located and there may be somebody nearby who would be willing to provide hands on help.

---

No luck, I tried 50 laps linen then 50 leather on a table edge. Kept the blade flat to the strop and used the weight of the razor for the amount of pressure. It doesn't change anything, catches the hairs doesn't cut them. I e-mailed the place I bought it from but they won't get back to me probably until Monday or Tuesday. So I wait.........

I did however try to shine the edge to look for issues. Should the edge be polished like a mirror? I can see perpendicular lines probably from honing. Maybe it needs to be taken farther and when I tried a couple laps on the 6000 stone I went back wards and need to get a 8000 or even 10,000?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gugi

the primary cause for the edge dulling is oxidation, not mechanical damage, so the main goal of stropping is to remove this oxidation and then realign the mechanical deformations.
so while the edge is indeed very delicate it is still steel and that's pretty robust. as long as the spine is in contact with the strop there really isn't much damage that you can do even if using pressure as the stropping surface basically moves along the bevel. the rolling of the edge occurs if the spine is lifted as then there is a force perpendicular to the bevel.
so there is no need to be too timid with the stropping, just common sense will be good.

as far as i understand classicshaving offers razors with the factory edge and honed past that and since you got the one that's been honed it should be good. some time ago they utilized the services of Lynn Abrams, but not anymore, still whoever does their honing should be doing at least a reasonable job at it. as i said since the edge is deteriorating over subsequent shaves the most likely cause is ineffective stropping and this should still be fixable. if not you have other options, so one way or another we'll get you going and successful. nothing to worry about.

there are a whole bunch of members in MN, the two off the top of my head are chrisl and bruce, not sure about randydance. In any case they would probably know of somebody nearby you, if there's one.

---

Now that advice makes me feel more confident that I'm not rolling the edge and now I "should" be able to eliminate that from the problem as I do keep the strop tight and the spine is always riding the strop, never lifted with the edge riding "solo". If anything I have noticed a few times when I start a return lap with the edge lifted off the strop but that's not hurting it, just not helping it. Doesn't happen frequently. Over time I'm sure my wrist movements will be more fluid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rllucas9

One thing you may have is metal particles on the edge. If you were to buy a mini-microscope from radio shack priced at about $13.00, you could look at the edge and tell more of what is going on and describe it to us better. We are just quessing even quessing if it has been hand honed.

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Great advice, guess who's going to the mall today? :)