Thick, Wiry Beard = Bigger, Heavier Blade?

I apologize in advance for the slightly wordy post.

I've just begun using straights - have about 20 - 25 shaves under my belt (still using DEs mostly during the week as it is much quicker for me). I have seen steady improvement in my ability to move the blade down, across and even against the grain. I do have some trouble spots where I can't seem to get the angle correct (curve of chin) and the right side of my face is still getting a slightly better shave than the left :).

I have been using 4 different 5/8 hollow ground razors. I purchased a Dovo new from SRD and found 3 other shave readys through this forum and other shave forums. I believe that I have my stropping to the point where I am at least cleaning up and prepping the edge as opposed to doing any harm - so far only nicked my strop the first couple of times I used it. All 4 razors seem to be sharp - or at least they all feel roughly the same on my face and to my thumbpad.

My issue is that no matter how much I play with the angle, change up the lather (making it with more water), etc all 4 razors seem to drag and catch through my beard. This happens mostly going XTG and ATG so I understand there could be issues with my technique. However even when going with the grain, all 4 razors seem to drag a bit and they don't really do a whole lot to my beard. They do remove some growth but it is not exactly smooth no matter what angle I try to use. I'm not cutting myself up either so I think I'm on the right track as far as the angle is concerned. I feel that I've hit my first roadblock in shaving with straights.

I believe I read somewhere that a bigger, heavier blade is better for thick/wiry/strong beards. Is this true?
In addition to continue working on my shave and strop technique, should I try a bigger and heftier blade? Perhaps a 6/8 half hollow? It seems to make sense that the additional weight would help cut through the beard easier. But I'm turning to the experts for confirmation.

For what it's worth, I have to use DEs on the aggressive side like the R41, Fatip, slants to get a good shave. The popular 34C, DE89, etc simply don't work with my beard.

Any and all input/advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks SRP!

My ideas on this issue differs from most here. My answer would be Sharper Not Bigger. Those who say bigger will tell you that Pressure is the Issue. With Bigger you have Weight and like a guillotine the beard will cut itself as it falls. Sorry I don't think so.
Bigger, I believe, was just a Function of holding more lather. You have to remember the time when they were used... No running water, ability to hold lather was an issue.
Check their sharpness.

If you read the older publications from the Olden Age of Straight Razors it does actually say that the heavier grinds are for Heavier beards, -BUT- if you jump forward to the Golden Age of Straight Razors 1930+ when Hollow grinding became common you don't see that so much..
The heavier grinds (1/2 hollow and lower) do tend to make things a bit easier to start with for beginners because they need less finesse, but I would hold short of saying they are actually better ..

Try one and see how it works out for you that is the best way to tell...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johnus

My ideas on this issue differs from most here. My answer would be Sharper Not Bigger. ...

Check their sharpness.

---

I Fully agree!

IF your beard is the issue, try working the lather longer:
Get as usual lather on your face, do something else in the meantime and keep the lather on your face. Every 2 minutes add a little water to the brush and work again the lather on your face, try to keep the lather thick and wet, repeat 2-4 times.
That way you keep the wet lather on your face for 10 minutes or more and allow the water enter the hair and soften it.
Then shave, if it doesn't work the issue is not (not only) your beard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johnus

My ideas on this issue differs from most here. My answer would be Sharper Not Bigger. Those who say bigger will tell you that Pressure is the Issue. With Bigger you have Weight and like a guillotine the beard will cut itself as it falls. Sorry I don't think so.

---

Sharper, not bigger is definitely great advice. I don't think the beard will cut itself, but certainly the weight of the bigger blades requires less downward pressure, when moving down. Moving up, well, now you have to lift the heavy blade. Make no mistake, they are significantly heavier. I have several 8/8,9/8 and 10/8 W&B razors are there is a significant weight difference when compared to a 5/8.
Here is a quick photo of the difference in size, one is 9/8 the other 5/8. There is a significant weight difference. Which is better?.....depends on what you like.

Attachment 107126

For me, the weight of the razor does not make as much difference in my shaving as the grind of the razor. I don't know why.

I prefer the feel of a small quarter hollow razor (or heavier grind) to a full hollow of any size. Again I don't know why - like Glen said and maybe others (sorry I don't have time to read everyone's posts, so I try to hit the ones I think will be most entertaining - or have the most punctuation, hehehe) try different kinds of well-honed razors if you get the opportunity, and try to make an honest comparison for yourself to find what you really prefer.

And you are likely to find your preferences changing a little or a lot as your shaving/stropping/honing techniques improve

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sterm

I Fully agree!

IF your beard is the issue, try working the lather longer:
Get as usual lather on your face, do something else in the meantime and keep the lather on your face. Every 2 minutes add a little water to the brush and work again the lather on your face, try to keep the lather thick and wet, repeat 2-4 times.
That way you keep the wet lather on your face for 10 minutes or more and allow the water enter the hair and soften it.
Then shave, if it doesn't work the issue is not (not only) your beard.

---

Yes beard prep can go a long way. Do you do any pre shave prep? Hot shower, or towel etc. They will soften the hair up significantly.

In the old days barbers had a few razors and they were pretty much 5/8s and 6/8s hollow ground and they used them to shave everyone who came into the shop no matter the type of beard they had and they all got great comfortable shaves. So that fact should put the "suit the razor to the beard" myth to bed. Of course it doesn't but it just shows you don't need to specialize to get a great shave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

In the old days barbers had a few razors and they were pretty much 5/8s and 6/8s hollow ground and they used them to shave everyone who came into the shop no matter the type of beard they had and they all got great comfortable shaves.

---

Except for Mark Twain!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tylerman

Yes beard prep can go a long way. Do you do any pre shave prep? Hot shower, or towel etc. They will soften the hair up significantly.

---

Yeah, I usually have a shower before hand or at least use a hot towel. I also use both pre-shave oil and Proraso before each pass - works like a champ when I'm using my DEs.
I haven't tried what Sterm suggested which is to let the later soak in for several minutes - I'm going to give that a shot as well.

I have one hell of a thick beard. I will say I see no difference in my Hollow Ground Duck from my Near Wedge and 1/4 ground. I will say I prefer heavier grinds. They feel better in my hand and I have better control but my duck can cleave with the best of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

For me, the weight of the razor does not make as much difference in my shaving as the grind of the razor. I don't know why.

I prefer the feel of a small quarter hollow razor (or heavier grind) to a full hollow of any size. Again I don't know why - like Glen said and maybe others (sorry I don't have time to read everyone's posts, so I try to hit the ones I think will be most entertaining - or have the most punctuation, hehehe) try different kinds of well-honed razors if you get the opportunity, and try to make an honest comparison for yourself to find what you really prefer.

And you are likely to find your preferences changing a little or a lot as your shaving/stropping/honing techniques improve

---

Hmm..interesting. I might have to try both a bigger and smaller blade in quarter or half hollows.

I have a 5/8 full hollow ground blade and a 6/8 full wedge for example..full wedge mow's my very coarse whiskers down with more ease than my 5/8 hollow razor..its just more shorter strokes are needed with anything less than a near wedge razor..for me anyways..

I'm one of those who had thought my beard type was just too stiff, or what ever for a hollow or extra hollow ground blade. Yesterday I debunked my own belief in this. I have a Boker 6/8 Extra Hollow Ground that I had put up almost a year ago because I just couldn't get it to shave well. In my mind it was just too thin and I had written it off. I started using 1/4 hollows, and my favorite razor for quite a while has been the Wacker Keilschlief Wedge, and I still like it a lot. Yesterday as I was checking on razors and cleaning off oil and applying Renwax I came across that Boker and thought, I haven't looked at this razor in almost a year. So, I decided to inspect it. I looked at the edge with a lighted loop and if anyone could have seen that edge right then I would have shrunk back with embarrassment. I had tried to hone it back then on my brand new Norton stones, and just plain didn't have any idea what I was doing! I could tell I had used way too much pressure on that thin of a blade, hadn't got the bevel set except for maybe one or two small areas and really hadn't done much polishing at the 8k either, which was a moot point anyway. So, yesterday I reset the bevel on the 1k Chosera, moved to the 4k Shapton, then 6k, 8k and finished on the 16k. I stropped it with CrOx on polywebbing, then with a Neil Miller real linen and Horween Cordovan strop. This morning I had as good a BBS shave as I've ever had with any razor. No tugging, no digging, no nicks, just a great shave. It never was the razor or the grind, just me!! Bad technique, I was using way too high of an angle, stropping? and for sure my honing. Whether there are beards too tough for a hollow grind, I don't know, but mine sure isn't one of them and that Boker is definitely back in the lineup, 1st String!! You might try getting yours rehoned and go with a much flatter angle and see if it improves. Good luck!!!

Best Regards,

Howard

It is my opinion, based upon nothing more than unsupported and unsubstantiated conjecture, that the variation in beard types (in terms of thickness, wirey-ness, density etc) within the adult male population is not as large as people might think it is, and certainly not of sufficient magnitude to merit a relationship to the grind of a razor.

Technique is the key, IMO. Heavier grinds can sometimes be a crutch for a technique deficiency and you do often see "intermediate" shavers touting the wedge-grind's praises in terms of shaving abilities over and above a hollow grind. I did it myself. A lot. lol!

No, it is my humble opinion that grind is immaterial - all razors meet at a tiny, tiny point whether hollow or full grind, and that is where the rubber hits the road in terms of a shave (or should that be "metal hits the whisker"? :))

Good Luck!

James.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimbo

It is my opinion, based upon nothing more than unsupported and unsubstantiated conjecture, that the variation in beard types (in terms of thickness, wirey-ness, density etc) within the adult male population is not as large as people might think it is, and certainly not of sufficient magnitude to merit a relationship to the grind of a razor.

Technique is the key, IMO. Heavier grinds can sometimes be a crutch for a technique deficiency and you do often see "intermediate" shavers touting the wedge-grind's praises in terms of shaving abilities over and above a hollow grind. I did it myself. A lot. lol!

No, it is my humble opinion that grind is immaterial - all razors meet at a tiny, tiny point whether hollow or full grind, and that is where the rubber hits the road in terms of a shave (or should that be "metal hits the whisker"? :))

Good Luck!

James.

---

Ah.....but there are differences in hair thickness and skin types (scientific fact, not conjecture). That is why so many different type blades were made and why one person likes a razor honed off of a Natural stone compared to synthetic. It is those subtle differences that make us unique. A good example is simply that I cannot understand anyone that does a cold water shave. But there are folks on the site that swear by it.
To each his own and enjoy your shave your way.

I am also fairly new to straight razor shaving. I think that if you just hang in there for awhile and take your time you will get the razors you have working just fine. Every time you shave, it will get better. I have around a hundred shaves now and I am just starting to think I know what I'm doing, there is quite a learning curve. Another thing that has helped me is sticking with one razor, at least for four or five shaves. Too many variable just complicate the learning process.
Randy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rkw216

I am also fairly new to straight razor shaving. I think that if you just hang in there for awhile and take your time you will get the razors you have working just fine. Every time you shave, it will get better. I have around a hundred shaves now and I am just starting to think I know what I'm doing, there is quite a learning curve. Another thing that has helped me is sticking with one razor, at least for four or five shaves. Too many variable just complicate the learning process.
Randy

---

Absolutely correct. And just when you think you know what your doing, you'll get a bleeder.....LOL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mvcrash

Absolutely correct. And just when you think you know what your doing, you'll get a bleeder.....LOL.

---

Yep, cut myself two days ago. Don't think about work when shaving.

Thanks to everyone for all the input! I guess it's safe to say that beard density/thickness should not be a main factor when choosing a grind.

I did have a pretty good shave tonight - very close, not quite bbs everywhere (almost) but did have a few nicks.
I took Sterm's advice and let the lather soak for several minutes. I've seen and used this prep method in the past when I started using DEs. As time went on, I found that that I didn't need that extensive of a prep while using DEs. However, it seems to have some real benefits when I'm using a straight.

I'll add this to the routine and stick with the razors I have for now. As things evolve, I'll continue to evaluate. I am curious about different grinds so I'm sure I'll pick something up but, thanks to all the responses, don't think it's a requirement at this point

Pfunkdaddy, +1 on other replies. I think I read you say you have coue of razors. May help if you shave with same one for a while to get feel\technique down. Using different razors too often too earl, as I have/did, could make it slightly challenging. JMHO and $0.02

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PFunkDaddy

I am curious about different grinds so I'm sure I'll pick something up but, thanks to all the responses, don't think it's a requirement at this point

---

Seems more prep has paid off.
Just a FYI. One of the famous razors for tough beards is the the Filarmonica EPBD. It is a 8/8 full hollow so a stiff grind is more personal choice rather than functional choice.

I would probably attribute your difficulties to the simple fact that you are still learning how to shave with a straight razor. I'm in the same situation as you and I am still figuring out the best ways to shave certain "trouble areas". Do the hot towel over lathered face a couple times, it works a dream for me. Strop your blade really well, 50 strokes or more, try adding glycerin to the lather etc. All sorts of stuff to try.