"Windows Sucks". Discuss. (AKA Why do you like your OS?)

I'm a bit reticent to start this thread - I don't want to start a windows-bashing competition - the title's a joke. But it might help us from :HJ and :OT-ing other threads....

I personally set up all my machines as dual boot Windows XP and Fedora. I mainly live and work in Fedora, and boot into windows when I need to use platform-specific software as part of my work.

I like windows, things do "just work". But then a lot of hardware seems to me to be designed and supported for this platform, so perhaps it's not suprising that this is the case.

Fedora, and Linux in general, agree with my "commie", or rather "socialist", principles (these are my principles - if you don't like them, I have others....), and I like the challenge of getting everything set up and working properly. I also love command line stuff, and grew up on Unix.

James.

I miss Symbolics Genera.

Hi James,

I reckon pretty soon Scarface (Lou) will be adding his 2 cents worth as to why windows sucks, you just wait and see :D

Now come on now Lou don't let me down.

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnmw1

Hi James,

I reckon pretty soon Scarface (Lou) will be adding his 2 cents worth as to why windows sucks, you just wait and see :D

Now come on now Lou don't let me down.

John

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John, I think you're right - I always fall for the sucker punch...

Mparker, I'd never heard of Genera - just googled it and it sounds interesting.

James.

I remember my first tutorial with Windows - after the technician over my shoulder had finished giving me the quick tour, I asked "OK...how do I turn it off?" and the answer was ...."Click on START"....(??!!!???)


...and my experiences with Windows went downhill from there.

My first home computer came with Windows ME....I now have gray hair.

Granted, I understand that they've done a number of 're-writes' and 'upgrades', and that, contrary to my other post, DOS is pretty much gone since, what, Windows 98?.....

I'm currently running Windows XP -- just yesterday, I was in the chat room with John when my keyboard quit working....the fix....re-install the driver....

...now, Jimbo, I have no doubt that you can take me by the hand and lead me through the wondrous crystal castle that is now the Windows operating system....taking me from room to room....pointing out it's stellar icon based user interface (we all know where they got THAT idea!)....it's plug and play convenience (oops)....it's ease of networking (ooops?)....and Microsoft's co-operative attitude to the computing and software communities....and you know, as we stand at the front door to the castle after the tour, all starrry-eyed with wonder and amazement........











......IT WILL STLL BE WINDOWS...


.....A..N..D....I..T....W..I..L..L....S..T..I..L.. L....S..U..C..K..!..!..!..!

-whatever

-Lou

:roflmao

Lou, you misunderstand me. I agree with you. I'm probably the last guy who'd be showing people the wonders of windows. I only use it because I have to. But my objection is mainly philosophical - I have found most things work out of the box on windows (but see my caveat on that above) whereas in Linux you have to work a bit harder at it. But that's the fun.

Recently, I got hit by the trojans on the video page of this site. Only the windows side went down. Didn't even make Fedora blink, of course, as the guys who write these programmes exploit weaknesses in the windows OS. The tech guy at work's solution? Blow away my disk and re-image windows. Easiest way they reckon. There's gotta be something wrong when a re-install is the best solution.

James.

I love you, man.


-whatever

-Lou

High, I am a mac!

Hey, Kentriv, I've never used a Mac...but, you know....
























...I'll bet they pretty much suck, too!

-whatever

-Lou

I've been running Mac OS X Panther and it's a huge leap from Windows 98 for me. I don't get 10% of the adware and spyware I used to get. Those and viruses just seem bounce off the ironclad defence system. About once every six weeks I get a message to upgrade a security platform which is only a few days from having discovered a new threat. Windows never did that for me.

Most of what I do is word processing and the like. NeoOffice lets me work and record in any format I like from Linux through Windows to Mac files. It's so easy. When I moved into my BIL's last year I just took the tower with me (which is only 2" tall BTW) and when I turned it on for the first time it read "Detecting System Settings" and told me it had found a new printer and would I like to use that one for my jobs. I said 'yes', it said 'ok', no driver installation, nothing just "What should I do, boss?" and "Sure enough". Gotta like that.

X

I have to admit I've never used a mac and it probably is far better than windows.

My problem is with these linux users :mad:

The theory is good and I have tried many many many times with Redhat/Fedora, Mandrake, SUSE. I am, and have been for over 10 years now, been a computer programmer and have a fair understanding of computer systems... BUT

I install these so-called operating systems and then the fun starts. :td

My printer doesn't work, my modem doesn't work, my tv card doesn't work, the first time I tried linux I chose a screen resolution that was too large and the whole thing just fell over and went to command line!!!! I try to install programs and have to do it via command line and there are 2 billion packages that I need for it to run that haven't come with the software. I download the first and that needs 2 billion freekin' packages as well!!!

I know, I know.... it's not a linux fault, it's the manufacturers of the hardware that don't support linux. I don't care! If it doesn't work I don't really give a rat's why and I don't want to waste anymore of my life scrawling through millions and millions of pages of linux forums with no answers from geeks that have nothing better to do and end up saying I should recompile the kernel!!!!! :eek:

I plug in my usb stick and it recognizes it but can't see the files. I have to go to the command prompt, su to become root user and mount the fc'n thing every fc'n time!

I try to run software for copying dvd's and it doesn't work. The answer I hear you ask????? Install WINE to emulate windows!!!!! WTF??????????

I challenge any of you to get MythTV running on a linux box and not age 20 years in doing so!

1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, 3 Mississippi... where's my angina medication? I need to have a lie down.

So, Drsch, correct me if I'm wrong here, but.......








.....LINUX sucks, too?

I'm OK with that.

-whatever

-Lou

Lou, Windows ME bites big time. No question 'bout that :D

Confucius once said girl who stand on head in plane likely to have crack up (don't know why she had to be in a plane)

But guys you do seriously crack me up :roflmao :roflmao :roflmao

John

When my WinME home computer finally (and thankfully) gave up the ghost, I made a point to personally, hand-carry the damn thing out to the land fill, so I could enjoy the sight of the huge, tracked bull dozer grinding it into tiny little pieces and mixing them up with the rest of the garbage.


(...my only regret was that it didn't scream!...)

Windows ME blew by 'bites', didn't even slow down for 'sucks' and smashed into the wall of 'criminally prosecutable'...



...there's a special place in hell for the people that foisted that pile of crap on the computing public.

YMMV - but I doubt it!

-whatever

-Lou

http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...1&d=1172800213

http://www.georgeblowfish.com/prostitute.jpg
I'm Windows...
..Windows Sucks

-whatever

-Lou

eh :shrug: , I've had worse :w

I've used a lot of operating systems over the years have been an admin for a lot of them (somewhere in the 30+ range and that's not versions but distinct operating systems).

Some sucked, some sucked less and some I actually like(d) for one reason or another. For desktops the only one that's still active that I like is Mac OS X. If it had kept going, at least one of my Macs would be running BeOS now though... loved that OS for what it did well.

Ultimately, IMO, it still comes down to what works best for each person. There's no one universally perfect operating system for everyone or every purpose. my $0.02.

Ant

Mparker, that's very, very funny :roflmao

OK, I'll admit that Linux isn't that "easy". But personally I feel that's a small price to pay for "freedom".

Maybe I'm making a false analogy, but I think of windows as Gillette and linux as a straight (does that make Mac a DE?...).

Windows works, but after about two uses you need to refresh; new versions come out that basically just build on the old versions (ie let's add two more blades....); it's run by a soul-less corporation that just wants you to keep spending and upgrading for a sub-standard experience.

Linux takes time to learn properly, and skill and patience to use correctly. It's community driven, so the more you put in the more you get out, much like this forum. It harks back to a time in history where you actually needed to understand how a computer worked to use it effectively. It's first principles (compared to windows) and rather beautiful in it's simplicity in that regard.

This is only my opinion - and I do use windows (for those niggly hard-to reach places that my linux skills can't get to yet - like setting up my @%$$*& wireless card to work with my home network....)

James.

I get the pleasure of dealing with many different versions of Windows and Linux every day. Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows Server 2003, Windows Vista (which really sucks right now), Windows Longhorn (soon), RedHat Linux, Suse Enterprise Linux, Novell, AND soon to be Solaris.

Some days there's nothing that really works right in that laundry list of operating systems.

One of these days I want to buy a Mac Mini or small Macbook and dual boot XP with it. Then again I doubt I'd have any need to dual boot since the only compelling reason to do so is to play games with only Windows support. I dont play any games, so no need for Windows.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bwknight

I get the pleasure of dealing with many different versions of Windows and Linux every day. Windows XP... Windows Vista (which really sucks right now)...

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Why doesn't THIS surprise me???

...far be it from ME to say 'I told you so'...but, well....

-whatever

-Lou

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bwknight

Windows Vista (which really sucks right now)

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You're being kind. My wife was in the market for a new Windows laptop, and after seeing Vista she went screaming to the Apple store and got a macbook. With Parallels and XP, so she can still do stuff for the office, but at least she doesn't have to deal with that atrocity that is Vista every day.

Vista: It's Windows ME for the new Millennium!

...you're preachin' to the choir, brother....preachin' to the choir!...

-whatever

-Lou

Jimbo,

Couldn't agree with you more. It's just a mater of priorities and whatever floats your boat.

I'd love to make my own bread each morning from wheat that I grew myself, but sometimes you just gotta eat. :)

Cheers,
David.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drsch3

... but sometimes you just gotta eat. :)

Cheers,
David.

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Yeah, but with Microsoft calling the shots, it's...

"Life's a sh#t sandwich.....take a bite, or starve!"

-whatever

-Lou

Lou,

You need to buy yourself a shiny new abacus.

No rebooting, no drivers, no installation. Updates, you can just replace the beads every now and then with shiny new ones.

It'd be great! :tu

Cheers,
David.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drsch3

No rebooting, no drivers, no installation....It'd be great! :tu

Cheers,
David.

---

Heaven on earth!:tu

-whatever

-Lou

First of all, when i talk about windows, I mean the NT line of systems (2000, XP, Vista).

ME was based on the 9x kernel and was an example of what would happen if frankenstein designed an OS by grafting on things that don't really fit.
the 9x kernel should have had a stke pounded through it's heart and buried under a crossroads a long time ago.

That being said, we use windows (NT line) as a development platform and have never had stability problems.
If you can use decent hardware (intel, MSI, nvidia, ...) you'll get decent drivers and end up with a stable system.
If not, than you are indeed shafted.

I am into systems programming (drivers, services, DCOM etc) and I really like developing on windows because
- debugging multithreaded apps with Visual Studio is not too hard.
- I can install 2GB of searchable and indexed documentation that describes any API that was every released. This documentation is usually very accurate and actually matches the API.
- The API is very rich, and allows you to create neat stuff.
- Microsoft hosts newsgroups where experienced programmers like myself hang out to help newbies with their newbie problems.

I have also done large projects on Linux, and my main gripes are:
- we don't need no stinking documentation. Read the (sparsely documented) source code if you want to know anything.
- This documentation describes how the API worked 2 major releases ago. DO NOT use that API anymore. You should use these ones, which -incidentally- are not documented. Why do we ship the outdated version then? Well you have to have documentation, don't you?
- debuggers are for idiots. if you need a debugger to debug a multithreaded app, you are clearly not a real programmer and do not deserve to program for linux. That is why all gdb based debuggers lose context and actually trigger unexpected exceptions when stepping through MT apps.
- PNP and power management? what do you think this is? Windows?
- If a network connection disappears when you are moving a file across NFS, it is perfectly fine for the shell to freeze and halt all IO operations on a server grade system without even the option to kill it.
- RTFM, RTFM? Well I did RTFM, and guess what, TFM did not tell me anything, except that it was probably written in farsi, then translated into sindarin, into klingon and then to english. Oh, so I should WTFM? well If I could WTFM, I wouldn't be here, getting abused by a 19 year old because I had the audacity to ask newbie question, now would I?
-... <this list could go on for a long time>

Linux has it's strong points too. it is a protable platform, and anything written for it can be portable too.

But for my pruposes, I'll stick with windows thank you very much.
";"

Windows vs. Linux is like Gilette vs. straight razors.

If you do not want to put effort into it you buy Windows/Gilette.
If you are prepared to put more effort into it and get exactly the results you like you get Linux (or whatever) and a str8.

For me computers are a necessity to run my surgery, I cannot afford to experiment so I buy and use Windows.

I'm not going to go into any great detail, seeing as I could write pages on this stuff.
But the jist of it is I'm fine with WinXP, because, well, it works. I'm also a gamer, so I need at least WinXP for DirectX. The one thing that really gets me about WinXP (or any other NT kernel) is how much they love to use services, and the sheer amount of useless ones that are enabled by default.

The problem with every MS OS before it was that they all sucked... hard. The 9x kernels were all complete trash, and NT4 was a pain. Now adays things are abit different. Vista I'm not touching until at least service pack 1, and only will I get it when I really want to play some DirectX 10 based games. I wouldn't have done it a few years ago, but with the advent of Mac OS X, I'd recommend Mac's to any normal desktop user who asks me what new computer they buy.

"With out walls and fences there would be no need for windows and gates!"

Yeah, gaming is the one reason I wish I could have waited for an intel based mac. I love my G5, but very limited on the game selection.

I have several friends who run Linux, and if I wasn't running OS X, that is what I would be running.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ToxIk

I'm not going to go into any great detail, seeing as I could write pages on this stuff.
But the jist of it is I'm fine with WinXP, because, well, it works.

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Exactly. Installation of complicated programs is a breeze, and they work. In linux, installation of applications can turn into a real ordeal.

Mparker.. Genera? It is a small world then!
Have you heard of the VM of one of the old LispM's that now runs on a Linux kernel?

Edit: just watched HHGTTG movie -- sucked big time.

I knew they were working on it, I haven't really kept up. If I want to reminisce about the old LispM goodness I've got a Symbolics XL1200 with Genera 8.3 sitting in my spare bedroom. Haven't powered it up in awhile though, as it dims the lights in the neighborhood when it comes on.

OK - what I'm picking up here is that you guys like Windows because it's easier to write code for, easier to debug, easier to integrate, easier to load.....etc...etc...etc.....the one common denominator being....its easier for the software guys....

But you've got to understand (as I'm sure that you do) that 99% of the Windows users are on the OTHER side of the glass - ie- we're sitting at a desk, staring at a monitor with the 'blue screen of death', or suddenly, the keyboard quits working and you have to reload a driver, or you're trying to set up a simple home network (I still haven't got THAT one - thank God for USB flash drives!)...and I don't believe Linux (from what I've read and seen - I've never used a machine with it loaded, and, to be quite frank, I think one would probably have to have a deeper understanding of the inner workings to use it) is any better - the Mac operating system (is that the OS X that I see referred to) gets more comments as being a more stable platform, but I've never used it. All I'm interested in is turning on the machine and having it run my software (believe me, I realize that that is, in fact, asking a LOT, but I don't think its too much to expect) - instead of new bells and whistles, why not concentrate on making the OLD ones better?

So, and I realize that I've been kind of rambling here, when it's all said and done...I'm sorry,guys, but Windows still sucks...but since I can't draw my AutoCAD pictures with that new Abacus that David is going to send me (:tu), I'll just have to struggle on and deal with what I truly believe is a substandard operating system, and now they introduce one that's even worse!

My NEXT machine will probably be a Mac.

I'll behave now.

-whatever

-Lou

Ah, but Lou, you COULD run a software called Parallels, which will allow you to run some Windows applications in a windowed mode right under Mac OS X. I don't mean in entire OS emulation mode, like virtual PC, but rather in a Mac OS Window with a Windows application running in it. Additionally, you don't take the emulation hit if the Mac machine you are running it on is one of the newer Intel based machines, since the rerouted calls are not to x86 to PowerPC emulations, but x86 to x86 reroutes. Put simple, very very close to native speed. So much so that you'll likely not notice anything different.

I plan to give exactly that a shot very soon. AutoCAD, bless it's soul, is the single application which keeps me from going totally Mac. I'll let you know how it goes.

Obviously, I'm a Mac user, but I'm not religious about it like many in any of the 'camps'. I use and have programmed in UNIX, Linux, VMS, xBSD and Windows, and simply prefer the Mac interface and stability. Since my family and friends consider me the 'tech', I end up helping them all with issues. I never, and I mean never, have to help someone after I've transitioned them to a new Mac. Not having a virus in years doesn't hurt either...

Take care,
John

Yes, I've heard Macs are stable and work really well. And aren't the target of hackers and trojans and viruses (oh my!). And parallels sounds really good to me too. I think next time I might try a dual boot Mac/linux machine.....

Excuse my ignorance, but is the Mac OS based on UNIX? Mayhap that's why it's so stable...?

James.

Yes, Mac OS X is Unix-based (*not* linux based, and yes there is a difference).

Also, Parallels runs the entire Windows in a virtual machine but can hide the windows desktop so individual applications appear to be running on the Mac desktop. It's a pretty neat trick, but it's just a visual trick and not a fundamentally different approach to virtualization.

I'm still waiting for Mac-on-Mac virtualization. I've got VMware VM's that are on their 5th or 6th physical machine by now, one of them I know started on a 330mhz P3 w/ 512MB RAM, and is now running on a multiprocessor 64-bit Opteron w/ 4GB RAM. Upgrading machines is a simple matter of installing VMware and copying over the VM files.

I use OS X and will never buy a windows based PC again -----unless I have to. OS X is stable as hell --- I've been using it for about 3 years and I haven't had any issues --I don't think I've ever had to reboot it. No viruses to really worry about. If you're not into "building your own computers " and you don't specifically need windows, then I don't see any reason for using windows. But sometimes you do need windows, as in the case of Autocad (basically). I think if you appreciate styling and function, an Apple computer running OS X is about as close as you're going to get to a computer you can "love". Otherwise most computers I deal with are a shotgun away from meeting the big mainframe in the sky.


Justin