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If you want to know why Immigration laws aren't enforced, it's not because of administrations refusal but the fat cats and corporations who profit by them being here. If the interest groups reversed course we wouldn't have an undocumented problem real fast.
What the heck are you talking about lol?? Not enforcing what law?Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
Riddles are for sociopaths, kids... and trolls. Or maybe you're building up to a crescendo where we all have marvel at your conclusion lol. Either way, this game you are playing is insulting to those who took the time like gentlemen to approach the topic and give thier opinions.
I was always told a man should say what he means and mean what he says.
Good luck.
Please ......... no personal innuendo ........ no attacking the other guy based on his position.
If you have a problem with a person's point of view, what they post, settle it by PM if you cannot move on and ignore it.
Worst case report the post IF it appears to you that it violates the posting guidelines.
We are all gentlemen here so let's keep it that way.
Thank you, SRP moderator team
Thanks JimmyHAD for stopping this runaway train and reminding me to PM Myself to say that I'm king of the hill
Top of the list
Head of the heap
King of the hill
.....just foolin' I'm a gentleman with a small j
Are you trying to deny that we are doing an extremely poor job of enforcing out immigration policies? The millions of illegal immigrants that are here stand as living proof that we are doing very little to stop it. The fact that the Justice Department filed suit against the state of AZ to prohibit them from enforcing the legal status of the people also stands as evidence regardless of the flimsy excuses they have made for their action. And the words of the President to the governor telling her that he would not tighten border security unless he was able to get "immigration reform" through congress furthers my point. I don't think I'm being slippery here. I simply didn't feel that the obvious needed to be documented. As I've stated, this is not a left/right issue in that both parties have been guilty of ignoring this issue, or worse, attempting to profit from it. And just because both parties have taken advantage of the situation does not make the law "out of date" or insignificant. Quite the contrary, the fact that we've allowed it to go on has created a crisis situation. If you are arguing for full citizenship or against it, I think its hard to deny that our many years of turning a blind eye to this problem has lead us into this situation. This much I feel is obvious. What to do next seems more controversial.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
I think we all agree that we want those living here to come into the income tax structure to contribute . To do that we must need to make it easier to do that. Personally I have no idea what it takes . But it must not be that easy. It sounds like it needs to be changed. Usually forgiveness is a start to a mending issue. If they could be brought out in the open with a guarantee of amnesty to non violent illegal ailiens it could make things at least get on record and moving on citizen ship.:shrug:
First off I got to apologize to OCD for using a back-door to call him a troll. That was uncalled for.
As for the OP’s question, I believe I have already answered that. Being that the conversation is turning to immigration in general; allow me to throw out some thoughts with respect to American immigration.
America has always sought out the best and the brightest. This in turn has made America a very rich and powerful country. Not many people I know of today wish to see “those” people turned back. Unfortunately, the distain for immigrants in general here in America, is hitting a crescendo and indeed these are the people who having opportunities elsewhere… go elsewhere. That’s unfortunate.
Alas allow me to spin you a yarn about today’s immigration “problem.” As I see it anyway. Today’s problem has morphed out of government leveraging our social programs, secularism, and the recession.
Have you ever wondered why government gives so many incentives to family’s having kids? Perhaps you thought they did that because they are good natured. The truth as I see it is that they do it to encourage population growth. But why?
America’s social programs have been leveraged. By leveraged, I mean they have been sucked dry. They stole from every tax payer to fund other programs. But that was ok. They teach you to do as much in B-School. More importantly they did this because “knowing that the population would rise” and a new and bigger class of taxpayers would pay off the last generations, there would be no problems doing so. So on and so forth. But what happens when the population growth declines?
America is the only outlier in the “West” that is seeing population growth. Many attribute that to illegal’s who have children on American soil. This is a god-send for economists in the government as when you look at Europe, take Holland for example, population growth is declining. People there are about as secular as it gets and would rather a nice car over a third kid. Heck most are only having one kid which is population decline.
That of course means they need immigrants. New tax payers. Many of those people still have faith and they come to the country with it. Have a look at the tensions in Holland between the population and Muslims and you’ll see what I mean. The country looks very little like it did after the war.
Of course America is an outlier with respect to faith as well, and many here still believe. BUT, they aren’t producing as many kids as they once did either. American’s too want nice cars. So that’s a problem for the government because they need a larger tax base to pay for all those programs they leveraged.
Of course before the recession there were enough jobs to look the other way. But this recession has proven to be particularly nasty in that we are no longer doing as well as our parents did and… wage disparity is becoming a huge issue (even if you don’t believe Obama – we are at 1930s levels people – it’s a problem). Hence, when an illegal used to make 7 bucks an hour (for example) and didn’t pay taxes it wasn’t as big a deal because most other people were making say 15 bucks, and after taxes they were still ahead. Now that’s getting closer AND… much of the money made illegally isn’t going back into the American economy… sigh.
And that my friend is just the tip of the iceberg as they say.
If American’s really wanted to stop illegal immigration, it would be simple. The Europeans have done a great job of it and we could to. But of course government doesn’t want to stop it AND… to do it correctly, many programs would be lost and… American’s would have to give up on the illusion that they are free and have more rights than the rest of the world.
It’s a messed up situation. One that is only ever alluded to; and never spoken to in the whole but rather in pieces. Changing the law so that people born here don’t get citizenship will solve little. Besides the gov wants population growth. Building walls and policing them is a burden to our resources and solves little to nothing but… increases the police state. Allowing illegal’s to stay however also has the negative effect of causing those whom we would want to stay to have to wait longer, and longer and perhaps not get in at all.
There needs to be a frank discussion about immigration in the whole. Fighting it in pieces as we tend to do here solves nothing.
If it makes you feel any better David, the situation in your neighbour to your north is similar also.
Bob
The situation in Canada as I know it is very similar... except Canadian's have embraced immigration a bit more AND, the fact that they don't boarder a country like Mexico helps to. :).Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
It is big business and politicians are in the pocket, all this talk is about votes and saying what they think you want to hear…. And nothing gets done. Someone in your town is running for re-election.
Many Illegal immigrants once crossing the border in California and Texas get issued airline tickets straight to the meat packing plant all over the US only to live in “Company Housing” under conditions you can only imagine.
Here locally a Chinese national was arrested running a business where Chinese Nationals who were pregnant came to live with him in a large estate in an affluent part of Southern California, where they had their babies… US citizens all.
It is estimated there are many of these operations in the US, they advertise openly in foreign publications.
It is truly a dilemma, one which a Politian should not be allowed to attempt to solve. Can you say Health Care?