What are the thoughts of others on thisFremont reconsiders 2010 immigration law - Regional - Kearney Hub
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What are the thoughts of others on thisFremont reconsiders 2010 immigration law - Regional - Kearney Hub
mods if this is over the line please delete.
We have laws on the subject now that's not upheld. we really need to enforce the laws we have. what would happen in other country to illegal immigrants. I really don't think immigration is as bad as our elected officials. I really think they should be held accountable for the mess we're in. this is just an old poot (fart) thoughts
Fremont has a large Hispanic and Sudanese population due to a meat packing plant for a town that I think is about 15k or so. The town I live in is about 50k with the same issue.
Assimilation has not been a strong suit for many of them but who am I to judge as I have never moved to another country. However, IMO, Fremont has stepped over the line and is asking for a law that denies a persons inalienable right to shelter. If you want to pass some kind of ordinance about codes that are perceived to be broken or whatever, you better be damn sure ready to apply them to all.
Well, Crusader, I think we all know where you stand. I stand somewhere as well and nobody wants to hear it on a shaving forum (unless it is about blades, scales, soaps....even then, I wonder! ;)).
I mean no disrespect, but I see this going downhill fast. JMO
Please, I mean no disrespect to anybody. I am just curious on what an outsider thinks. I truly believe people should be afforded the opportunity to make a home where ever that may be as long as people reasonably make an attempt to local custom. I absolutely love different culture's. A country built by foreign born can not shut the doors but they must have a way to contribute.
I am looking for the above Gentlemanly discussion not argument.
Maybe some of our Euro members would care to comment being that the E.U. Is filled with "foreign" citizens living in other country's and how it is handled.
I'm not really up on US immigration law or policy, so it is not really appropriate for me to comment on that aspect. However, I find it hard to see what a regional/city law can do to influence a federal situation beyond the obvious publicity and media this is no doubt attracting.
Really all I can see this doing is creating a mess for someone else to clean up. Potentially thousands of people either moving somewhere else where they are allowed to rent (in which case all you've done is shifted the issue so that it's someone else's problem) or you'll get people living rough on the streets (creating another set of problems for the city), or you'll get illegal (according to the law) squatting (yet another set of problems) or tent cities will pop up or whatever.
Unless the US has laws that make the immigration department deport homeless people, I just don't see how it is going to do anything about illegal immigration.
But again, I'm hopelessly ignorant of US laws so I could be way off base.
James.
The law seems stupid to me. Ok, so I can't buy the house as an illegal but I can rent it lol. How does that deter?
What's even more shocking is how narrow minded it really is if you really are a hater of illegals. I mean let em buy it, then appropriate it when you kick em out. City makes money! Besides, one of the biggest issues with illegals is remittances (sending money back to home country). It's one thing to have an illegal in your country, it's another all together when they send all their earnings back. Perhaps on a individual scale you might think whatever - but when you study the aggregate as I have - it's huge!!
As a legal immigrant to America who had to live here for 6 years before I was even able to work, I think it would be fair to say that I have a problem with illegals. I have no problem with America's disdain for illegals (though the hatred for foreigners period is sickening), but what I can't understand is the lies.
The Republicans talk big but do nothing because illegals help big business. Democrats talk big but do nothing as they rely a great deal on immigrants for votes. It's schizophrenic... meanwhile everyone in America loses their freedoms as they "fight" for reform!! I really, really, really feel for those in Mexican boarder states.
If America wanted to get rid of the illegals, no one in the world is going to tell me they couldn't and for billions less than building all those stupid walls!
I also do not wish to offend anyone but I still stand by what I wrote. we have laws. to brake one is just as wrong as to brake the other. our laws are not just suggestions. I have the upmost respect for those who come here legally and if they wish to become citizens I welcome them. but let them do it legally.
One last thing. looks like this opened a can of worms. I want comment on it again.
The government of the USA went to war against the Mexican government, took Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California ....have I forgotten any ? Then 150 years later the Mexicans took it all back without firing a shot, and now they're going after the rest of it ! :rofl2:
truer words were never said.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I have to admit Jimmy,,, I do like Mexican food. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
,,,and some of the best women in my life were Mexican,,,,so if they take over the rest of the country, I might have to pull a Benedict Arnold,,,:D ;)
I'm not going to ride this thread down....as Sharptonn notes. We are a nation of immigrants. Please, illegal and legal are not the same word. And everyone says yeah, but you had the Italians, the Irish, the Germans, the Scandinavians, Chinese.....were any of their languages made the second language of the US? We have always depended on a slave class....man, I'd better stop. Manifest Destiny Baby.....it looks different now. Shucks, I did ride it down.....Adios.
Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
Unless you're a Tea Party republican.
But.....That boy of your's doesn't look Mexican? :w ...........(Kidding! :D)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
I don't know where they stand, but if it isn't come one come all, they are hypocrites too lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
Most people don't know where they stand. They just listen to what other people tell them.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
Well if they really are about libertarian thought, they should let whoever is willing to come, come. If they are about keeping America white... Then I guess not and they really aren't libertarian. My wife seems to think the later. That's too bad if true.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
Uh oH! Here we go! :roflmao
That would be an easy adjustment for him, my son likes everybody,,,,:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
even at 16 years, he still see's the world from the eyes of a 5 year old,,,,
I fail to see how a person who wants the nations laws respected is suddenly driven by a goal of racial purity.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
Dude... All you have to do is say what you think the Tea Parties platform is. I told you I had no idea. Then I told you what many people seem to think their platform is and hoped they were wrong lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
I really couldn't care less what their platform is other than to consider it an alternative.
If by the above statement you are saying that the laws that are written now is what they stand for... Then the perception of many is wrong. And for that I would be glad.
Tell me how do you feel?
The perception of many is wrong. The Tea Party believes in law. The recognize that laws change and can be changed. But the abandonment of law out of convenience is inexcusable.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
Its done all the time. Laws get dated and rather than rewrite them... They just die. You have yet to tell me what laws though if any YOU are referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
No shooting rabbits off the trolly in downtown Los Angeles. Still a law and by God it would be enforced if somebody even tried it :<0)
As for immigration I thought you had to have a card to stay in the US for more than ,what 60 days ? If not your here illegally taking a job, reaping the benefits of those who are here legally and PAY for all that. Most homeless are legal citizens that we can not afford to take care of like we used to because we are burdened with other expenses. In my opinion our laws are much more lenient than any other country in the world and if they were upheld we would have a much better country with a lot less problems and prejudice. I don't blame them for running from the poo holes they came from but come on, how many beggars would you allow to live on your property and eat from your garden all the while expecting you to be able to communicate with them and not the other way around. City governments are trying to react to the local pressure of their voters because at the federal and state (in most cases) level the control has already been lost. This is not a good sign. Any country that stops enforcing it's laws will become lawless. Not so much that they won't have laws, they just won't have enough power to enforce them. Unless the populace is defenseless.
My fellow Americans, I would like to repeal the law written in Dark Times that says if you are born here you are automatically a citizen.
We're not talking about a parking violation here. Not enforcing this law directly threatens the sovereignty of the US. The lack of enforcement by the last half dozen administrations is treasonous. And laws never really die. They are still on the books and can be enforced at any time.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
Here is some history about what previous administrations have done with illegal immigration ;Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/07/hoo...ass-deporters/
Moving within EU or ETA-states is normal and not a subject of big discussions. It has always happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusader
However the term 'illegal' immigration is almost nonexistent. It is almost impossible to work and live in EU while being in a country illegaly. There might surely be such people but their lives must be horrible.
Personally I think a non declared war is treasonous also.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
If you want to know why Immigration laws aren't enforced, it's not because of administrations refusal but the fat cats and corporations who profit by them being here. If the interest groups reversed course we wouldn't have an undocumented problem real fast.
What the heck are you talking about lol?? Not enforcing what law?Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
Riddles are for sociopaths, kids... and trolls. Or maybe you're building up to a crescendo where we all have marvel at your conclusion lol. Either way, this game you are playing is insulting to those who took the time like gentlemen to approach the topic and give thier opinions.
I was always told a man should say what he means and mean what he says.
Good luck.
Please ......... no personal innuendo ........ no attacking the other guy based on his position.
If you have a problem with a person's point of view, what they post, settle it by PM if you cannot move on and ignore it.
Worst case report the post IF it appears to you that it violates the posting guidelines.
We are all gentlemen here so let's keep it that way.
Thank you, SRP moderator team
Thanks JimmyHAD for stopping this runaway train and reminding me to PM Myself to say that I'm king of the hill
Top of the list
Head of the heap
King of the hill
.....just foolin' I'm a gentleman with a small j
Are you trying to deny that we are doing an extremely poor job of enforcing out immigration policies? The millions of illegal immigrants that are here stand as living proof that we are doing very little to stop it. The fact that the Justice Department filed suit against the state of AZ to prohibit them from enforcing the legal status of the people also stands as evidence regardless of the flimsy excuses they have made for their action. And the words of the President to the governor telling her that he would not tighten border security unless he was able to get "immigration reform" through congress furthers my point. I don't think I'm being slippery here. I simply didn't feel that the obvious needed to be documented. As I've stated, this is not a left/right issue in that both parties have been guilty of ignoring this issue, or worse, attempting to profit from it. And just because both parties have taken advantage of the situation does not make the law "out of date" or insignificant. Quite the contrary, the fact that we've allowed it to go on has created a crisis situation. If you are arguing for full citizenship or against it, I think its hard to deny that our many years of turning a blind eye to this problem has lead us into this situation. This much I feel is obvious. What to do next seems more controversial.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
I think we all agree that we want those living here to come into the income tax structure to contribute . To do that we must need to make it easier to do that. Personally I have no idea what it takes . But it must not be that easy. It sounds like it needs to be changed. Usually forgiveness is a start to a mending issue. If they could be brought out in the open with a guarantee of amnesty to non violent illegal ailiens it could make things at least get on record and moving on citizen ship.:shrug:
First off I got to apologize to OCD for using a back-door to call him a troll. That was uncalled for.
As for the OP’s question, I believe I have already answered that. Being that the conversation is turning to immigration in general; allow me to throw out some thoughts with respect to American immigration.
America has always sought out the best and the brightest. This in turn has made America a very rich and powerful country. Not many people I know of today wish to see “those” people turned back. Unfortunately, the distain for immigrants in general here in America, is hitting a crescendo and indeed these are the people who having opportunities elsewhere… go elsewhere. That’s unfortunate.
Alas allow me to spin you a yarn about today’s immigration “problem.” As I see it anyway. Today’s problem has morphed out of government leveraging our social programs, secularism, and the recession.
Have you ever wondered why government gives so many incentives to family’s having kids? Perhaps you thought they did that because they are good natured. The truth as I see it is that they do it to encourage population growth. But why?
America’s social programs have been leveraged. By leveraged, I mean they have been sucked dry. They stole from every tax payer to fund other programs. But that was ok. They teach you to do as much in B-School. More importantly they did this because “knowing that the population would rise” and a new and bigger class of taxpayers would pay off the last generations, there would be no problems doing so. So on and so forth. But what happens when the population growth declines?
America is the only outlier in the “West” that is seeing population growth. Many attribute that to illegal’s who have children on American soil. This is a god-send for economists in the government as when you look at Europe, take Holland for example, population growth is declining. People there are about as secular as it gets and would rather a nice car over a third kid. Heck most are only having one kid which is population decline.
That of course means they need immigrants. New tax payers. Many of those people still have faith and they come to the country with it. Have a look at the tensions in Holland between the population and Muslims and you’ll see what I mean. The country looks very little like it did after the war.
Of course America is an outlier with respect to faith as well, and many here still believe. BUT, they aren’t producing as many kids as they once did either. American’s too want nice cars. So that’s a problem for the government because they need a larger tax base to pay for all those programs they leveraged.
Of course before the recession there were enough jobs to look the other way. But this recession has proven to be particularly nasty in that we are no longer doing as well as our parents did and… wage disparity is becoming a huge issue (even if you don’t believe Obama – we are at 1930s levels people – it’s a problem). Hence, when an illegal used to make 7 bucks an hour (for example) and didn’t pay taxes it wasn’t as big a deal because most other people were making say 15 bucks, and after taxes they were still ahead. Now that’s getting closer AND… much of the money made illegally isn’t going back into the American economy… sigh.
And that my friend is just the tip of the iceberg as they say.
If American’s really wanted to stop illegal immigration, it would be simple. The Europeans have done a great job of it and we could to. But of course government doesn’t want to stop it AND… to do it correctly, many programs would be lost and… American’s would have to give up on the illusion that they are free and have more rights than the rest of the world.
It’s a messed up situation. One that is only ever alluded to; and never spoken to in the whole but rather in pieces. Changing the law so that people born here don’t get citizenship will solve little. Besides the gov wants population growth. Building walls and policing them is a burden to our resources and solves little to nothing but… increases the police state. Allowing illegal’s to stay however also has the negative effect of causing those whom we would want to stay to have to wait longer, and longer and perhaps not get in at all.
There needs to be a frank discussion about immigration in the whole. Fighting it in pieces as we tend to do here solves nothing.
If it makes you feel any better David, the situation in your neighbour to your north is similar also.
Bob
The situation in Canada as I know it is very similar... except Canadian's have embraced immigration a bit more AND, the fact that they don't boarder a country like Mexico helps to. :).Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
It is big business and politicians are in the pocket, all this talk is about votes and saying what they think you want to hear…. And nothing gets done. Someone in your town is running for re-election.
Many Illegal immigrants once crossing the border in California and Texas get issued airline tickets straight to the meat packing plant all over the US only to live in “Company Housing” under conditions you can only imagine.
Here locally a Chinese national was arrested running a business where Chinese Nationals who were pregnant came to live with him in a large estate in an affluent part of Southern California, where they had their babies… US citizens all.
It is estimated there are many of these operations in the US, they advertise openly in foreign publications.
It is truly a dilemma, one which a Politian should not be allowed to attempt to solve. Can you say Health Care?