Your thoughts? Personally I would love some Cuban cigars...
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Your thoughts? Personally I would love some Cuban cigars...
I think that we lost 58,000 Americans in Viet Nam and we buy all sorts of stuff from them. Communist China is our 'pal' , so why not Cuba ? The hypocrisy of maintaining our cold war policy against Cuba is ludicrous when we compare it with our relations with RED China. OTOH, they probably don't have enough money to loan any to us ......... :shrug:
Cigars or no cigars, right or wrong. The fact of the matter is that this is another example of the president acting outside of his authority. The Cuban embargo was established over the years with a series of Congressional acts that established the embargo. Who is he to re-write congressional legislation? People better wake up to this. Obama will not be the last president. Do we want future presidents to simply nullify existing laws and legislation in this manner? This is no small move on his part. If Congress sits back and does nothing they are setting up a precedent that will nullify any resemblance of a democratic/constitutional gov't.
Probably a good thing for the US cigar smoker, should lower prices I'd imagine. On the downside they would loose a little cache if they were readily available. Not to mention Cuba looks like it needs a boost for it's economy.
Bob
Back in the day when I smoked 6 cigars a Day,all were cubans,all came out of Canada.
BUT, the american cigar smoker today may be very disapointed in the Cubans.
Dominicans are far better IMO.
I know squat about cigars, but that is what the guy in the store said when I bought some for a relative. Cubans are expensive because of their reuptation, but Dominicans are better. Or so he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
However, I never understood why the US kept embargoing Cuba? I mean, if the US can be friendly with Russia and China, what did Cuba do to deserve 50 years of blockade?
I was told that unless and until an executive command is challenged in the supreme court it is legal. Same with how unconstitutional laws are enforcable in the US as long as they are not challenged in supreme court.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
I think beacuse Cuba is still an advoate Of communism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
In the 1980s Partagas, Upmann, among others, were great cigars from the Dominican Republic. I quit when a box of Partagas # 10s went up over $25.00. Used to buy single Partagas # 1s, and Maduros for like $1.25. In the '90s they became 'trendy' and the prices went nuts. :boohoo:
I remember thos days Jim, a great cigar for cheap,One of my other faves were Fuente 858s,when they first came out they were $18.50 a boxQuote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I think the reason the Cuba embargo lasts is because there was a great deal of money lost by the "rich and powerful" in the US when Castro came to power and nationalized all the businesses. Then there are the "refugees" in Miami that also lost what they had and want it back. To my thinking, not unlike the Palestinians in their fervor.
The families of both sets have long memories. This really wasn't the case within the US with the Chinese and Russian revolutions. An additional factor, Cuba seems to have little to offer but cigars and cheap vacations. China is a huge economy and Russia has oil. As in all things, Follow the money.
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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
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Originally Posted by Bruno
Along with the killing of Cubans when Castro came to power were the deaths of US nationals. Then there was a little incident involving Nuclear Weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I have personal friends that lost family during that time. Frankly I would like to see Cuba embargoed until every person involved with the killings has passed away.
That having been said, I feel for the Cuban people themselves and believe ending the embargo would greatly help them and bring Democracy to Cuba in time. So I am open minded about ending the embargo.
If the President of the US wants to end the embargo he owes it to the American people and our Constitutional laws to proceed properly and work with Congress. What this President has done to our government should scare everyone no matter your political standing.
Fidel killed a whole bunch of people when he took over. Mass executions went on for a long time. IIRC Che Guevara was in charge of those. There is no doubt that the Cuban American community has kept the embargo going for decades. Probably most of the people who were on either side are gone, or close to gone. I don't know that what happened back then is as important to the Spanglish kids that have come along since. Anymore than "Remember Pearl Harbor" means much to young people today. After all, Viet Nam may as well have been the Peloponnesian War as far as young people today are concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by KindestCutOfAll
Sanctions are an interesting thing. Some time ago I read a curious article about how they can (and in some instances have) become a self-serving end goal and instead of being a tool for achieving a desired policy objective they become an obstacle to achieving it.
When the other side sees your punishment as completely out of proportion and with no real upside to altering their course you lock yourself out of any influence.
I think the moral justifications for the santions against Cuba are a perfect example about seeing a splinter in the eye of your adversary and ignoring the beam in your own. Pot, kettle, etc.
But even ignoring that, come on! Japan is a valued technological trading partner these days. Hello Pearl Harbor?! Any reason for blocking off Cuba becomes plain silly by comparison.
Looking at it more political, I'd say this is part of a perfect storm that is about to hit Russia really, really hard. russia has been an ally of cuba again ever since Putin came into office. The US cosying up to Cuba is sure to remove that ally from Russia. the US is close and Russia is far away. Someone is also driving down oil prices like mad, causing the Ruble to go into free fall and rapidly souring the Russian Economy, because Russians depend on oil export to prop up their currency.
If I were a betting man, my money would be on this being one of the ploys to make Putin lose his Russian backers by htting them where it hurts: in the money pocket and their ally portfolio. I don't think it is a coincidence that these 2 things happen almost simultaneously.
Not to mention Germany ..... these things happened a long time ago. When you come right down to it, Great Britain killed a lot of Americans, colonials in the revolution, and Americans in the war of 1812. We are close allies since shortly after the turn of the nineteenth century. At some point it is counter productive to hold a grudge, especially if the philosophies that caused the problems no longer exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
i can attest to this. I'm a long time Partagas #4 smoker. A couple years ago a purchase from Canada was very disappointing. i called them with in minutes of the first few puffs with my disappointment and they assured me they were authentic. The only way I know to authenticate is to reference the tax stamp on the box of which it was authentic.
Maybe with this change they can get their cigars back up to speed.
I may be wrong, But I think russia pulled out and disavowed Cuba long ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
That'd be the Saudis and for them it's primarily about Iran. Destabilizing Russia is certainly an extremely dangerous game, hopefully the goal is to just keep them from the weapon of gas shortages for Europe over the winter months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
That is my recollection as well. While Russia pulled their support, a lot of other countries continued to do business with Cuba, so it isn't as if they were left destitute. Living in South Florida it will be interesting to see what effect this will have on us here.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
For me it is about time. Sent. Rubio spoke against Obama and called him a coward. The cowards are those that left Cuba decades ago leaving family behind instead of fighting for freedom. This country became free because our forfathers fought for it. Where would we be if they fled to Canada or South America instead of fighting. We cannot fight for every country that is not democratic. China is not democratic but we trade with them. Let's move forward and hope change will come.
On a lighter side. Think about all those straight razors in Cuba that may go up for sale!
That's not historically accurate. Take a look at the congress bills on the matter, pay attention to the dates they were passed and enacted. From 1961 until 1992 the name of the country was present only in the executive order of president Kennedy which enacted those sanctions. The legislation he relied upon only establishes a statute and leaves it up to the executive branch to determine who fits into that statute and who doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
If Obama is overstepping his authority the republican party will control both houses of congress next month and they should impeach him. Isn't that what they're paid to do, at least they've been talking for years about his tyranny but the only time they put their money where their mouth is was suing him for doing something they wanted :shrug:.
Bay of Pigs Invasion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaQuote:
Originally Posted by bouschie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_missile_crisis
Well, it's a way to really hurt Russia in General and Putin in particular at a very inconvenient time. A friend of mine has a relation with a Ukrainian, so I know som first hand stories about the situation there. Nato and the EU want to stop Putin's advance, but cannot risk open warfare. This is far more effective, makes Putin politically very vulnerable, and cannot be twisted into military propaganda.Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
The Cubans have been Russian allies again since Putin came to power.
and indeed what you say will play into it as well. We need Russian gas in the winter months. However, while Russia can hurt us, their problem is that they need to get rid of it in order to make some money. And the amount of gas produced equals the amount used. If they don't sell it to us, they'll have to seel it to someone else and as a result we'll be buying someone else's gas. It doesn't hurt to have them by the short and curlies of course.
The main industry is Cuba is tourism,Is a go to place for the rest of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I have been to Cuba (leagally thru Canada)Is a magnificent Country with great people,great food, great fishing.
They fought the Indians for it. And Mexico as well when they acquired New Mexico and Texas. Hawai was sort of a WWII bonus.Quote:
Originally Posted by bouschie
:)
No country's forefathers are holy and noble. Countries are founded by butchers who get to write history when they're done.
Except Belgium of course. We got founded because our surrounding countries wanted to have a place where they could fight each other that was not on their own soil and could go home afterwards without having to clean up the mess after the party. They coudn't even find someone who wanted to be king here. The guy who did accept in the end called it the mistake of his life.
They still support Cuba Putin Writes Off $32 Billion of Cuba's Debts to Russia - The Wire .Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Bob
I stand corrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
Can Obama lift Cuba embargo alone? | TheHill
Remember the Alamo ? We went to war with Mexico and took a whole bunch of their country. Now, 150 years later, they're taking that back, and then some, and ain't fired a shot ! :gaah: ............ :banghead:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I wonder if some Vietnamese feel the same way about USA.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
It's true in the long run, but it's still a weapon that can be used very successfully because over the short term it's a matter of who has more reserves. Putin already used it successfully in Jan 2009 and won the concessions he wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Back then he was flush with cash, the west was in the aftermath of a financial crisis and he could outlast the weakest links in the European gas reserves; now he can't.
A bit over a year ago he was lecturing US on its impending involvement in Syria and what constitutes aggression under international law. And much of the conservative media here hailed him as an amazing leader.
We had a thread few months ago on how horrible for US those sanctions would be: http://straightrazorpalace.com/conve...-rattling.html
I have enjoyed Cuban cigars for many, many years, and still do. Since the embargo there has been some risks involved for Cuban cigar lovers, in the U.S., to enjoy the cigars. Confiscation obviously and more importantly having reliable sources and knowing without question that what you are smoking is indeed genuine is of course key. Counterfeiters have profited enormously, especially in the last 10+ years, marketing to the U.S. primarily out of huge Swiss warehousing systems which also store and ship legitimate Cuban cigars for many of worlds best online suppliers. The fake dress boxes, bands, seals, factory stamps and Cuban date codes will fool the best buyers, especially novices who could not tell a real
Cuban cigar from garbage. This market for the fakers is worth millions of dollars and will no doubt continue even when Habanos S.A. controls the market in the U.S. for Habanos cigars. Experienced Cuban cigar lovers can tell a Cuban cigar without issue by sight and smell alone without having to light the cigar. Cuban soil is unique in the world and the tobacco produced there is some of the very finest in the world.
The consensus among some of the largest supplies of Habanos cigars and many of the worlds most famous collectors and Cuban cigar lovers in general has been to stock up on your favorites. With the embargo lifted the concern is the demand in the U.S. for Cuban cigars will trigger production in Cuba to be severly compromised for several years producing
cigars, again, with draw problems because the time will not be taken to utilize the draw machines that took so long to get into general use in Cuba will be ignored, and worse, the maturation process and aging process will be compromized as well initially because of demand. An additonal concern is Cuban tobacco crops that would have been considered sub standard now and limited to cigars and cigarettes consummed in Cuba will find it's way into
the U.S. market. Yet another consideration is the resurgence of the dreaded tobacco beetle in the islands cigars. It has not been that long since Habanos S.A. imposed strict QC in terms of freezing to control and kill the beetles eggs. Prior to freezing, tobacco bales were subjected to treatment by Phostoxin in pressure chambers to kill beetles, larva and eggs. This was sometimes hit and miss. It was common practice here in the U.S. for Cuban cigar lovers to segregate new boxes from your regular supply for a period of time to insure no
beetle problems. I regularly would freeze new boxes to about 14 below for 7 to 10 days.
Before any distribution of Cuban cigars in the U.S. will be lengthy legal battle over "Brand" names. Most non-cuban cigar producing countries began marketing the brand names
unique to Cuban cigars in the market.
A concern about the embargo lifting that concerns the "green" ecological side of me worries about the potential for abuse of one of, if not the last, un-molested living reef systems in Cuban waters that has been protected in Cuban waters. There are species surviving in that sole reef system that have completely dissapeared from the rest of our planet.
I wish for the very best for the Cuban people in all of this political drama.
Enough of my rambling. My cigars are my last vice and I find a good Habanos cigar to be
good medicine for me at one a day.
Oh, did I say to stock up!
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The only reason the embargo has continued so long is the Cuban American Community in Florida. The politicians are afraid of them. Only recently opinions have softened probably because many of the old ones are dying off.
Until we start moving in there, mostly without documentation, I don't see the analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
Vietnam Is becoming the next Japan,going to war with the U.S has always turned out to be a good thing for 3rd world countrys.
They spilled their blood in the seventies to defend their country from a foreign aggression and to establish it as socialist one, and after they won they ended up working for pennies for the US capitalists who get the lion's share of all profits.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
The other aspect of the analogy is that that illegal immigration is benefitting a lot of americans and costs few ones at the very bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, so in the end money trumps nationalism.
It's not like this immigration is there all on its own - it's there because it isn't stopped and if you follow the votes you'll see that the real obstacle is the financial benefits it brings.
The French had occupied Viet Nam as a colonial power, when Japan invaded them and that is where Ho Chi Min got his start as guerrilla leader. He and his crew helped us expel Japan out of there in the 1940s with the expectation that we would permit self governance, following the surrender of Japan, but our Ally France, had other ideas so the country was partitioned. In 1954 the French finally gave up on containing the Viet Minh and then we began protecting the South from Uncle Ho and the communists.Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
Well aside from all the side conversations going on here... I can't say that I am particularly happy.
I lived in Jamaica in 1980. Back then, Jamaica might have been thinking about embracing political change. Supposedly, the Cubans were never there to help them make up their minds - for that matter, nor were the Yanks (cia). Yeah right.
The violence I witnessed by spanish speaking people will forever taint my feelings.
Maybe one day I can hope to let go... but the scars run deep in me on this one.
I keep seeing this repeated. What did you guys do during the Iron curtain days?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
