Office front of the dentist who shot the rare beloved lion. Palmer is still in hiding and has received threats.
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/...pseh3j6xch.jpg
Printable View
Office front of the dentist who shot the rare beloved lion. Palmer is still in hiding and has received threats.
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/...pseh3j6xch.jpg
Don't get me started on this.
Sheepeople jump on the bandwagon that didn't care about lions 1 day before the news media MADE this a story.
Poaching threatens wildlife populations all over the world. It is a sad state of affairs. I think that there are a lot more wealthy people conducting illegal hunts than most imagine. This is one of hundreds that happen every day. The tip of the iceberg so to speak. The issue is massive and rarely gets any real attention.
Could not agree more. There is a huge difference between legal hunting and what that dentist did.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
Bob
:cen. I have nothing nice to say.
Is THere any Proof that the animal was Poached? the guy claims he had all the proper permits.
He does deserve his day in court for sure.
Anyone who needs a guide should not be carrying a firearm, bow, or a fishing rod for that matter. Trophy hunters are just slightly above road hunters.
He had permits to hunt (~50k USD worth). The lion was in a No Hunting area and was lured to a neighboring farm by dragging a dead animal from the lion's area to the farm.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
This was bad enough.
Then it became public that:
The lion was collared and had been part of a study for many years. Being black manned, it was rare.
He shot it with a bow and arrow then had to track it for over a day before using a rifle.
This "hunter, sportsman" had been convicted in Wisconsin of shooting a bear in a protected area, putting it in his truck, driving 40 miles to a legal hunting area and trying to tag the bear as if killed in the legal area.
His actions are what give PETA their converts.
Yes, he surely does. I hope he gets extradited to Zimbabwe to stand trial. That might be justice.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
Bob
Wow.New about the bear,,did not know about the rest of the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by rolodave
But wait, there is more Cecil the lion's killers 'moved his collar to cover up crime' | Daily Mail Online . Not only did the lion have a GPS collar it was removed from his carcass and shifted around as a deception. Yea, I don't think he knew what he was doing/being a part of, yea right.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Bob
Other folks hunting does not bother me...howsomever...I don't have much use for a cheat. His story is now a Big Thing in Minneapolis/ St Paul news. Only a part of the story of course. Now it seems to be a sob story for his customers...will they get their teeth fixed??? When will the office really open for business, what about his partner in the business??
He hasn't been seen since the hunt, perhaps a good thing, but he also owns properties in Northern MN.
~Richard
Seems the dentistry office is reopening minus one dentist.
Bob
I hope the "hunter" dentist is extradited to the country of the crime.
AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by lz6
He should be made to pay dearly.
With multiple properties in Minnesota and Florida, and the money to pay $50,000 for a permit, he obviously thinks his wealth puts him above the law.
That will never happen in that very poor country.Quote:
Originally Posted by lz6
The bear story is news to me...what is the source of this information?
Lets put the problem into perspective............:soapbox:
Just some thoughts on the subject of hunting, collecting, drinking, etc.
There were not so many problems when the things were left in the hands of the original professionals. People paid and were paid a reasonable amount for the privileges. If the product caused problems consequences pretty much affected the user and family of.
After the various taxation domination parties got involved, the costs went sky high. The very laws, maybe meant to protect species, were used to exploit them. It is now 20-1000 times more costly to hunt or buy any wild animal part than it was 20 years ago. Why? because the middlemen can rake off huge profits by furnishing things that are controlled. And, as the "Musicman" said..."We got trouble right here in River City!" It is not the guys what do the work, it is those who control the commodities and laws, and furnish the means to go around them, that make the huge financial profits from killing. Modern chattel slavery is a similar matter. them that can get them do.
Look at the progress of prohibition in the USA or of its drug laws. Both bred a nastier breed of criminal and bribery than had ever before been seen.
Our president made old Ivory a regulated commodity in our country and made a deal with the folks that have never kept a treaty for conservation and who will collect it the most. Now the stuff is contraband here and the middle men shout and jump about with glee. Gee; our European neighbors can restore stuff and collect it but we can't. New info from Pixelfixed. But, do not try to get it through customs!
~Richard
PS. Some one said that "There are no feel good laws which don't cause unpleasant consequences for most other folks."
Pictures Cecil the lion's killer tried to hide of dead black bear killed in illegal hunt - TelegraphQuote:
Originally Posted by Ernie1980
Bob
No, it won't happen for political reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Bob
Richard,Obamas stand on Old Ivory is at this stage still a proposal.It is regulated in only 3 states at this time. but not by federal decree.
Thanks Pix! What are you betting on for odds?~RichardQuote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
In a country that poor he would be able to buy his innocents and walk away a victim of circumstance. What would truly serve "justice" would be if he were tried in a non biased country. That too will not happen. I have seen far too many times people from other countries taking bear paws and gallbladders and never having to stand for their crimes because it is too complicated. It was a very large issue here for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
Not Good,will be tottaly banned before his tenure is over IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezer
Buddy of mine got busted for selling gris, bear claws.spent 6 mos. is a fed pen:(
I don't watch TV but there's been enough on the net about Cecil the lion and the public outrage.
I agree that trophy hunting is self indulgent, destructive, has no redeeming qualities and should be illegal and punishable to the fullest extent of the law.
I also believe those that have apparently made death threats against the dentist should also be investigated and punished to the fullest extent of the law.
I understand the outrage. I also think trophy hunting is disgusting on one hand and pathetic on the other.
However.......those that react to the killing of innocent animals with seemingly violent fury lose all credibility with me if they hypocritically do not also respect human life.
Chrisl
Some very valid points. Death threats are also crimes, and should also be dealt with. It sort of reminds me of the pro life activist that was killing abortion doctors sometime ago. I try not to judge other for their beliefs and practices. I have know trophy hunters that have gone to great expenses to make sure that their kills were not wasted and have donated the meat and yet others that consumed their kills, although the motivation was for the trophy. I am not going to condemn all, but there are some very wasteful and dis respectful practices that go on. No matter how passionate I am about some things I also believe that the protest should always be legal and peaceful. An example of that is I support Greenpeace and loath the Sea-Sheppard. If we do not stay within the law ourselves we are criminals and terrorists.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisL
I have read a lot and watched a lot on TV about this lion and the hunt. I wasn't there so i can't say whether any of it was right or wrong. I can only hope that the truth will come out and what needs to be done will.
You will find good and bad in any sport no matter what the sport is. I myself hunt. not lions but small game and deer. I eat what i kill the same as they did years ago. I really believe that the professional hunter that guided the hunt was just as much at fault as the person that killed the lion. Whether on not the hunter knew he was doing wrong or not the guide did. Also in a lot of places you have to hire a guide before you can hunt.
At least this is calling attention to the mistreatment of zebras.
Attachment 209509
Is just lion food.
The dentist had already been charged in the US for a similar game violation involving a black bear. There already have been 2 people charged in connection with the illegal killing of the lion, the guide and the landowner where the hunt/killing took place. Given the dentist's previous charge in the US for which he paid a fine and put on 1 years probation plus the fact that the two Zimbabweans are being charged I am more than willing to believe the dentist knew full well that he was involved in an illegal hunt. Ultimately the courts in Zimbabwe will rule on the legality of the hunt, as it should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by rhensley
Bob
I tend to think it all quite sad. Where these animals live is their last bastion. A primitive place, still. Mankind, money, and technology are accelerating the end of some species, I think. Leave them alone. Let nature take what is due . The only animals which should be 'sold' should come from a responsible government which determined so. No way to find the moneyed Dentist guilty, He paid for what he got. Certainly cost him a pile. He is extinct, now. Ironic that a black-maned lion has deserved some attention, upon his death. JMO
Some accounts describe a cut fence but all include the fact that the lion was lured from the game preserve. Given that latter fact, I think it's a lame defense for him to declare that he considered the entire thing to be legal. In my opinion the greater likelihood is that he knew exactly what he was paying for.
I just don't know where to start
Let's just say that anyone that doesn't hunt should REALLY do some research because so many statements here are really off the cuff and just not true... Not just hunt but trophy hunt there is a distinct difference..
For instance the things that the media reported that set people off
Luring the animal
Hunting with a spotlight at night
Tracking a wounded animal for days
Skinning and taking the head
Leaving the carcass after a 40 hour track
Hunting with a guide being mandatory
These are all legal / common, even here in the US, You can find this info easily
I personally don't trophy hunt but I understand the realities of why it is needed to perpetuate those species
This is especially true in poor countries.. You can find all this info easily if you chose..
As to guilt, I wasn't there, but I do know that most of the guilt if any will go against the PH ie: the Guide as that is his job and his license that are in jeopardy..
ps: I could fill this page with multiple links to back up everything I am saying, but honestly I doubt anyone really cares :(
Interesting perspectives, and facts on this topic.
Never understood trophy hunting, anything I kill is for food. Hell, I feel bad landing a big fish and will quite often release it if possible.
Saw interviews with some of the locals and they could care less that the lion is dead. in fact they celebrate the death of a potential life threatening predator.
Some of the things that you have listed are not legal in jurisdictions outside the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
In Ontario luring/baiting is legal in areas where it is legal to hunt. The ethics of deliberately luring/baiting an animal out of a protected area is extremely questionable though.
In Ontario try jack lighting here and see what happens if you are caught. You can't hunt at night.
Tracking a wounded animal for days to finish them off is legal here and an ethical thing to do.
In Ontario skinning and taking the head is legal here but leaving meat to spoil isn't
In Ontario hunting with a guide is mandatory for non residents of Canada.
Yup, trophy hunting rankles a lot of people but it is legal so long as you meet certain requirements associated with it in whatever jurisdiction you are hunting in. Hunting provides an economic benefit and it is very important in poorer countries but also makes breaking/bending the law in those same poor countries much easier/likelier if you have the bucks.
Bob
