But, I'm not out of popcorn yet[emoji12]Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin103
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But, I'm not out of popcorn yet[emoji12]Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin103
I would say the last thing anyone should do is try to make them change their position on anything. It's much better if they realize it for themselves. When a majority of citizens are willing to go in a different direction "together" the extremes will either change on their own or get left behind. History proves most people really don't want to be left behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
The nice thing about what you just said is they only represent 5% not 95%. The majority would be working together. The 5% will have to make their own choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmercer
Glen, You didn't ask me this question but if you don't mind I hope you will allow me to use your question as part of this post. Respectfully I would prefer not to think of you or anyone else as conservative or otherwise. If as a person you are willing to work with all others to find compromise solutions that help everyone then I would prefer to think of you as a constructive member of society who understands and is willing to action those common needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Respectfully Martin it's up to each individual member to decide to participate in any open discussion. I would value your opinion on the subject being discussed but would prefer that we don't impose sanctions if the majority of people are fine with participation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin103
You've hit on one of the biggest road blocks we as humans face. Our own comfort level. There is no doubt it would be hard but without doing something we are doomed to proving out Einstein's definition of insanity. Also referring to your earlier question. Real freedom to me in the context of elections would be a system where I'm voting for my representation at all levels of government that are not tied to any party affiliation. Someone who will tell me his or her ideas on what our community/country needs, then let me hear from other candidates and then let me cast my ballot without fear that that individual if elected will then ignore everything they said they would work to accomplish because of party pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmercer
TYQuote:
Originally Posted by Brenngun
I'd sign up for that.
Sounds good but implementing is over my head. ;)
So many changes would be necessary.
Politician mind set comes to mind first. Then voter mind set. Har! chicken or egg is first. ;)
Well, I had a long convo with my best friend on the way home from a fishing trip in the mountains yesterday. He's a pretty staunch Republican, while I'm quite radical the other way, but somehow we get along-beer, barbecue, and fly-fishing keeps us together, but that's another story). One concern I shared is this feeling I have been getting increasingly since around 9-11 that, slowly but surely, the chess pieces are lining up, and people and their groups (Tea Party, Trump supporters, Bernie Bros, BLM'ers, etc.) are retreating into ideological corners away from the middle. It seems to be happening all across the world: Stay versus Leave, environmentalists versus fossil fuels, ISIS versus-well, the whole civilized world it seems, you get the idea. And my buddy added with the point that politics are everywhere now, and every experience, every conversation centers around it-hell, even on the very fishing trips I go on to escape it!
And so it seems every social gathering is fraught with tension and unresolvable differences, whether it be holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving, or family reunions (which I'm about ready to quit attending-some of the things I heard some of my hard-right family members say at the last one made my skin crawl, just truly disgusting). Or even here on good old SRP, our bastion of gentlemanly good will. Hell, we have a group of friends, parents of my former scouts, who have a nieghborhood cookout and pool party for every summer holiday, and we have just about quit going. We have almost nothing in common to talk with them about anymore (plus a couple have a habit of showing off and passing around their guns when there's alcohol being consumed-not cool or safe! I am ok with either one of those, but they don't belong together).
So more and more people can't even talk to each other about politics rationally, as we have all retreated so far into those ideological corners and become so partisan that we don't even really have an agreed upon reality to talk ABOUT. Left and right view the world through very different lenses, and get their "facts" mostly from partisan media that keep them that way, and further supports the world view that they have nurtured in the insular bubble of like-minded friends and carefully-curated media they surround themselves with. And some recent research even suggests that they may be wired differently psychologically!
Plus it's all so personal now. Whether in the vaunted halls of Congress, in the media, or in those awkward conversations around the table, people on "the other side" are no longer viewed as respectable people of good faith whom you happen to disagree with (think Ronald Reagan and Tip-O'Neil), but as vile, despicable human beings that you actually loathe: "libtards," "right-wing whack-jobs," "tea-baggers," "Commies" or socialists, "gun-humpers" versus "gun-grabbers"-these are just a few of the epithets I have heard and seen regularly in the media, and there are much worse I won't repeat here. Ben Carson even insinuated that Hillary Clinton was in league with Lucifer (but he also believes the great pyramids were for grain storage, so yeah).
I'm not sure where I'm going with yet another one of my long rants, but this is just something that disturbs me, and I have no idea what to do about it, really. On my end, I try to read and get my "news" from as many different types of sources as possible. I check out Salon, Alternet, The Daily Kos, and some others on the left; I watch CBS News on tv, listen to NPR and the BBC on the radio, and even check out Fox News from time to time online (though I can't stand to watch it), especially after a terrorist incident, as there are often relevant issues more mainstream media won't touch. I also check in on The Blaze, Breitbart, and God help me, even World Net Daily occasionally just to see what they're stirred up about this week! The Guardian, Al Jazeera, NYT, Chicago Tribune, and any major news site or magazine with a story that pops up on my Flipboard app is worth reading.
Maybe somewhere in that mish-mash of competing, vastly-different world-views is something approaching "the truth." I just wish more people I know would try to broaden their media habits, and maybe make an effort to meet and talk to people who aren't exactly like themselves-20 years in a diverse, cosmopolitan suburban high school takes care of that last part. As Atticus Finch famously said, "You've got to walk around in the other person's shoes."
I know that many of you are intelligent, thoughtful men of good will who also try to see a broader view of the world, or you wouldn't be here on SRP conversing with men from several different countries. Overall, almost all of the long political debates I have seen on here have gone on for many pages without too much rancor (well, maybe excluding the Gold Dollar or gun control threads-anybody remember Project Coochie Razor?!). I honestly wish I could see this kind of mostly friendly debate "IRL" (in real life) without people demonizing each other, pushing, shouting, shoving and screaming, but I doubt that will happen much.
As I said, the chess pieces are lining up, and I for one think things are only going to get much worse. I know my "Brothers of the Blade" on SRP can stay above the howling fray, the demonizing and vilification, and continue to be respectful of each other. All the best wherever you fit on the ideological spectrum. Aaron/SHD
Very well said Aaron. :tuQuote:
Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad
+1 -- Very well said Aaron. :tu
Wise words, thanks +1.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad
Still, as much as i know, only say 5% of all people or so have been the ones that are really hard line. Be it right wing, left wing, nationalists, extreme muslims or christians or whatever.
Until this far the rest have been all happy to live with at least more or less compromise: give some, get some.
The sign of the times seems to be that those corners have now been activated. The question is how to prevent them from dragging the rest of the people with them. From the history we know that in such situation something wicked comes.
Sailor-As someone who teaches Shakespeare and "The Tragedy of Macbeth," I appreciate the paraphrase of the witches in referring to Macbeth: "Something wicked this way comes." And anyone who has seen or read the play knows that ended very badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor
I think most people have the capacity to be generous, respectful, and understanding towards those they may disagree with and also have the capacity to be inconsiderate, divisive, and abusive.
It is a matter of choice whether one follows their baser impulses and builds their camp to war against the others or whether they follow their 'better angels'. This thread (and others) has plenty of examples of either approach.
Thanks Gugi for the Lincoln reference-"The better angels of our nature." I enjoy all kinds of quotes from literature and history, have them all over the walls in my classroom for kids to think about (when they're not playing on their phones under their desks, that is!).