Transgender Weightlifter Killing it

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Originally Posted by ChrisL

Current/common way of thinking seems to be: a transgender person declaring they are the opposite sex should be regarded in all ways as such (e.g. pronoun references as their declared identity, changing sex on legal documents to declared sex, using declared sex bathrooms/locker rooms, etc) In effect, no difference than biological persons of the declared sex. Treated as and regarded as....the same in all respects.

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I disagree. Here are those 'Feelings' I referred to above.

Just because someone CAN do something does not make it right.
LOTS of folks 'FEEL' this way.

Don't hold your breath trying to change someone's mind.
Exactly like politics. In fact, pure politics....Just stronger feelings.

Push for it. Make it law even. Won't change a thing.

Now why should this thread NOT be closed?

Indeed.

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Now why should this thread NOT be closed?
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A sensitive subject with strongly opposing views.

That in itself is no reason to stop it and I have yet to see any post that even if I don't agree with it is offensive.:shrug:

Well, I have much better things to do with my time.

It's not a 'subject' IMO, But an aberration. One which I dislike seeing on this forum, personally.

I leave it to you.

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Well, I have much better things to do with my time.

It's not a 'subject' IMO, But an aberration. One which I dislike seeing on this forum, personally.

I leave it to you.

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Thank you.

I too have said all I needed to on the subject, specific to the OP and its subject theme, as I saw it.
This being in the conversation sub forum, seemed an appropriate place for the thread to me. I found it as sensitive an issue as I expected, but not offensive.
I think it's run its course, but that's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by ChrisL

Society's new view regarding transgender and sexual identity is so new that I'm sure it will evolve. Case in point, the very topic of this thread, transgenders and competitive sports is a conundrum to be sure:

Current/common way of thinking seems to be: a transgender person declaring they are the opposite sex should be regarded in all ways as such (e.g. pronoun references as their declared identity, changing sex on legal documents to declared sex, using declared sex bathrooms/locker rooms, etc) In effect, no difference than biological persons of the declared sex. Treated as and regarded as....the same in all respects.

Competitive sports: Acknowledgement by many as to the fact that biologically men and women are different and can in many sports give a biological male and by extension, a biological male declaring himself female, advantages. Advantages which some argue should prevent transgender male to female from competing with biological women. Or, create a different class in sports altogether, a transgender category (I doubt transgenders would like that idea).

Unless society embraces in totality the concept of perceived sexual identity being no different than biological identity without restriction including in competitive sports and instead has a same in nearly all respects but different in some respects related to biology (ie sports) wouldn't we as society be simply pretending or adopting fantasy as reality?

That's why I just don't think you can have it one way (transgenders are the same as biologicals they identify with) but then not another (but not the same in the case of.......).

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I see your point, and it's a very central one. It lays bare the two realities (that you call biological and subjective) of someone feeling/knowing one way that directly opposes what they are biologically.

I agree that an either/or solution would be the clearest for society at large. However, it is not that black and white. I would think transgender people are fully (and probably painfully) aware of biological differences.

Even though in general they aim to be recognised as male/female (and some as neither), some present themselves as 'transgender men/women'. Now I don't know if that is for awareness purposes rather than personal identity purposes.

Regarding competitive sports, there are tests and standards based on testosterone levels, which are constantly being revised and tweaked.

It's not an easy issue, and there is no easy solution. Brushing it off as nonsense or stating it's an either/or situation doesn't resolve the situation. And the situation is how society regards transgender people , not merely in what division they compete in in competitive sports.

And they are real people with real people issues - how trying to solve personal issues makes you an egotistical "me, me, me" person is beyond me.

And just a general, very personal opinion: if the "normal" segment of society is the standard by which we measure "how silly people look" and what is "right", I sure hope I don't belong to the "normal" segment.

I for one, don't put sports on the same pedestal society at large does. I can enjoy watching and doing sports, but it's not that big of a deal (institution) to me.

Best regards,

Pieter

Oh, and if all threads would be closed as soon as they would have run their course on this forum, there would be very few threads running beyond two pages. Just sayin'.

All prejudices re. transgenders apart. The question here is: do transgenders whose muscles developed under the influence of testosterone qualify as females as soon as they are castrated and start using oestrogen hormone replacement therapy.
We all know that muscles develop differently in men and women. This pubertal muscle development is not reversed by the use of oestrogens.
So I wonder how right it is that transgenders qualify as female in sports.

And this stands apart from the question how society should deal with their new gender. E.g. whether their passports and other legal documents should be changed according to their new gender.

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Originally Posted by Pithor

Oh, and if all threads would be closed as soon as they would have run their course on this forum, there would be very few threads running beyond two pages. Just sayin'.

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You have been here long enough to know that subjective threads frequently get derailed and things get heated. I think this is one of them.
I am offended because I think this is someone from my own country trying to use the rules to their own advantage. To gain recognition, no matter the cost.
One thing you are missing here, sport is not sport anymore, it's business.
Which reminds me of the evening when I lost a game of table tennis to the second best female competitor in New Zealand.. Don't remember the score, will never forget that night...[emoji7]


Sent from a moto x far far away

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Originally Posted by Grazor

You have been here long enough to know that subjective threads frequently get derailed and things get heated. I think this is one of them.
I am offended because I think this is someone from my own country trying to use the rules to their own advantage. To gain recognition, no matter the cost.
One thing you are missing here, sport is not sport anymore, it's business.
Which reminds me of the evening when I lost a game of table tennis to the second best female competitor in New Zealand.. Don't remember the score, will never forget that night...[emoji7]


Sent from a moto x far far away

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So far I don't see this discussion as being heated, it has been quite gentlemanly in my view.

And the rules are what they are, someone used the rules in place to their advantage. Which propels discussion on said rules, which propels further tuning of said rules. Which, in the end, are meant to make things clearer and more fair for everyone involved. Transgenderism(?) is a real thing happening that we, as a society and individuals, have to deal with.

That being said, I'm not so sure that the person in question here decided to change their gender just to be able to win. That would seem very extreme to me (a competitive streak bordering on insane), also because it would certainly result in a lot of flack, even if sports would not have been in play.