Maybe old news but just seen it myself.
A transgender weightlifter has shattered records in international women’s competition for the second time in two outings. Lol, we live in crazy times gentleman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl26Xgbltvs
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Maybe old news but just seen it myself.
A transgender weightlifter has shattered records in international women’s competition for the second time in two outings. Lol, we live in crazy times gentleman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl26Xgbltvs
Google: Andraya Yearwood, a 15 year old Connecticut high school male who has declared he identifies as female.
He has blown all biological female competition completely out of the water. State Champion in the 100 yard dash.....
A biologically female competitor who came in second in the race was tearful afterward and was quoted as saying: "It's frustrating, but that's just the way it is now."
This is utterly absurd, and is at the level of the "Bladerunner." I don't care if he was handicapped, the blades gave him a ridiculous advantage. This was evidenced in the Special Olympics when he lost to another guy with longer blades and he claimed it was unfair even though the longer blades were similarly proportional for the guy's greater height.
In this case, as in the blade runner's, the competitor has an unreasonable advantage. I don't care how he/she identifies. If you functioned as biological male for 35 years, you cannot suddenly decide to be a woman and compete with actual women.
I do think we need a transgender male and female category in sports.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisL
I'm ashamed of myself for finding that video too funny.
Or just have one catagory for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishShaver
Such slippery slopes and, IMO, decidedly selfish, or me-centric times we are entering into gents.
Men are men, and women are women, genetically. Nary the two shall be on totally equal footing in every situation.
Our unique, different traits compliment each other's very well, almost naturally I dare say.
I was raised watching All in the family, but my views are not sexist, or homophobic. Or at least I hope they are not. I believe we are all free to choose to love whoever we desire, regardless of sex. If it's consensual, legal, and in the privacy of your own space. Whatever floats your boat really.
Same sex marriages, and even same sex adoptions seem fair, and reasonable evolutions of the human condition in the 21st century for such a civilized race as we...
But when we start to exert scientific and genetic influencing to go beyond the natural boundaries of humanity, well, we have gone a little to far. Again, in my opinion only guys.
You were born male but you relate more to females, ok that's fine, relate away.
But to manipulate genetics and hormonally, and or surgically change your exterior to emulate the opposite sex, then to try to compete in physical events built for that sexes natural limitations on an even playing field.. Come on,, total poppy COCK, (see what I did there?) hehe.
I feel nervous for our future as a race, candidly..
In the 4th grade I got beat up by Flora Webb; while in the gym playing kickball. I fought back to keep from getting totally hurt( Flora was the biggest student in the school).
I was then sent to the principal's office where I got another beating; later that night my dad beat me again.
Life can be so unfair. :(
After your knee recovers, you might be able to take her. :medvl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
But then everyone gets a trophy too right?Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
Seems everything has been ruined..Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts.....Sad!
JMHO
According to the way many today think, I think you can, Ron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
You both have touched on something that I think is broader than the current societal view toward transgender. Transgender is a manifestation of society attempting to replace objective reality with subjective reality. The emphasis is no longer on "us", but instead is on "me". I would say it's unsustainable because there is no foundation if objective truths are rejected; however, subjective reality is a powerful tool of control to wield against the populace that is easily manipulated.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB52
In regard to the specific issue of biological males declaring themselves female, participating in female sports and winning handily as such -- Within the current societal framework, one would think that establishing some criteria for being accepted as the sex one claims to be would be demanded by society. It would seem to make more sense, for example, for society to establish a guideline that a person isn't recognized as being the sex opposite their biological sex until they have their genitalia permanently removed surgically.
I actually don't think such a definite guideline or "bar" will be set anytime soon, however, since doing so would erode the credibility of subjective reality being a viable and sustainable foundation for society. Subjective reality is: "You can't tell me what my reality is. Only I know what my reality is. If I say I'm a woman and think I'm a woman, how dare you question me." To those who believe this, sexual identity is now self perceived. It's no longer biologically defined. For someone to insist that a person isn't the sex they perceive themselves to be unless they were post-op is, according to people who believe this way, highly discriminatory and offensive. To those who believe this way, sexual identity can also be an evolution. It's a person's prerogative to declare female today but revert back to feeling male at some future point...
We can't have it both ways. Unless someone like the 15 year old track star were proven admitting to being a charlatan, no one can really argue otherwise without being accused of being discriminatory (powerful tool to wield against the populace....). If he simply says he thinks he's female, society must perceive him as such. He'll continue to mop the floor. He should also expect to receive any full ride scholarship that may be available to girls based on his performance.
As time goes on, I wonder if females will lose interest in group and competitive sports. Can't win? Why try?
I'm also surprised that no man who declares he's a woman hasn't applied for and expected things such as grants, etc that are set aside for women. Minority owned businesses (woman owned businesses qualify as such) often are given preferential treatment and consideration in bidding certain jobs and projects.
This is about a line that will be drawn in eventuality.
Always have said it would happen.
This side, or that?
Subjective reality,, nicely put.
:tu
Science 2017
Climate Change = Science is settled
Biology 101 = Science isn't settled
Why do I feel like I am living on a Flat Earth
That is all
Science is never settled.
Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?
I find the transgender discussion intriguing.
Personally, I don't have issues regarding people by the gender they identify with or modifying themselves physically to feel more comfortable in their skin; if someone tells me she is a woman, I assume she knows.
By my interactions with transgender people and reading on the subject, I feel that it's a good thing that more and more gender is being regarded as being determined by what's between your ears much more than by what's between your legs.
This also goes for the clearer distinction between gender and sexual preference; I have an acquaintance who is transgender male (i.e. female-to-male) and romantically inclined towards men. After a bit of pondering on the subject, it made perfect sense to me.
In most aspects, such as legal (adoption, marriage, etc.), having children I'm all for absolute equality, irrespective of someone's gender identity, sexual orientation, skin colour, religion, whathaveyounot.
I do however feel like a discussion with regards to physical competition is relevant. I also don't believe transgender people can be physically on the same level as the gender they aim for.
Then again, testosterone levels (and other biological qualities) fluctuate within biological genders as well, giving some men a clear advantage over other men in competitive sports.
See, interesting.
Oh, another thing I learned from interacting with and reading about transgender people: it's not a sudden decision. More often than not it is the culmination of a life-long identity crisis. Pre-transformation transgender people apparently have a significantly above average risk of substance abuse and other self-destructive behaviour. I'm pretty sure most of them don't "do it" for kicks, being cool or for becoming top ranking athletes.
Also, there are very many unnatural things that are everyday reality: breast implants, GMO crops, animal breeding, medical engineering, honing on stones made from synthetic materials. Apparently, YMMV.
Participation souvenir. "Trophy", I'm sure offends someone, somewhere!:shrug::gaah:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieseld
I think it's more of an all or nothing thing. What you're saying can be viewed as selective discrimination. A similar scenario I envision would be a group of biological females who decide to form a club of some sort perhaps in addition to being female, also share a common experience of childbirth. Transgender proponents and supporters would most likely cry foul if such a group didn't want a biological male identifying as a woman in the group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pithor
I'm actually surprised that there has not been more of a public assertion by biological females who have given birth as to uniqueness of such an experience which, like it or not, absolutely excludes biological males in any form from identifying with said experience. I recall when my wife, who with one of our children was in labor for 35 hours read that the musician Sheryl Crow who adopted or had a surrogate give birth said something to the effect of: "When we gave birth to.....". My wife's reaction was pretty visceral: "Um, YOU didn't give birth to anyone there, Sheryl!". I'm sure an argument could be raised that there are many biological females who don't give birth and no less a woman for not doing so. I guess my point is childbirth is real and unique and can't be identified with unless you're a biological woman who has given birth....
I recall reading some things after that woman's march in the U.S. that some biological women were not accepting of transgender males identifying as women joining the march for the cause of women.
Its not the transition I am opposed to it is the hormones etc.... that they take (need) surely that must give an advantage??? Sharapova got banned for taking a substance (that was legal and only just changed) if she had been taking the medication the transgender people have/need to take she would of been banned for life, for that reason it just does not make a level playing field (hey I am not saying all other sports people are clean just because they have not got caught etc.... cycling is an example of that)
I dont mind the people going through a change like that and then going public can not be easy, but the medication imho makes a difference that is just unfair
It's impossible for someone to change gender without taking hormones. I wonder if things will change soon in regard to Olympic and professional sports in regard to testing for hormone "enhancement".....Quote:
Originally Posted by alpla444
I had mentioned "subjective reality" being the basis for things such as the acceptance of a person's gender based on their perception vs. their biology.
This may get some eye rolls or groans, but I'm being honest with my view that others accepting someone's subjective reality as reality could extend past gender identity to other forms of self perception. There is, for example at least one case of a man, Luis Padron, who considers himself trans-species. He's spent a ton of money on a large number of plastic surgeries to permanently alter his appearance to look as closely as possible to his perception of what an elf would look like. He considers himself elvish. If subjective reality is the rule, I ask, why society shouldn't be expected to recognize him as an elf. Or the artist, Neil Harbisson, who has Synesthesia and has some sort of brain implant and has asked that he be recognized as a cyborg rather than human. I think we have to be careful if our attitude as a society is: "It's only right to accept and respect someone who thinks they're a gender different than their biology, but accepting someone who thinks they're an elf or a cyborg? Well that's just plum crazy!"
People can do or think as they choose in America. I have no problem with any of it as long as it does not become a burden on the taxpayer or gets special treatment/advantages/benefits that a normal person does not get.
Well, there is the case of Rachel Dolezal who decided to be black and took advantage of that fraud.
"Identifying" as something that you are not is fine. I suppose I can "identify" as an airline pilot, but I'd better not be allowed in a cockpit. Once again, my rights cease where yours begin.
The absurdity of political correctness. All "her" cells are still genetically male. The only thing that has changed is that oestrogens have replaced testosterone. It is unfair to the majority of real women that they have to compete against these transgenders. This is the reversal of democracy: tiny minorities and their vassals ruling sports.
I've been watching this thread from afar and I have my opinion on the matter however I'll keep it to myself so as to keep the integrity of the thread intact.
I do have an 'observation' or 'question'. While I have no idea of how this 'conversion' works other than some surgery. Doesn't it take Hormone Injections or such to make the 'transfer' possible and keep it happening?
If this is true, there are rules in sports about participants not being able to use hormones. Or does taking female hormones not count?
Just wondering :shrug:
Male to female transgenders are castrated in the process and take oestrogens to become more feminine.
So wouldn't those estrogen 'supplements' be classified as an 'enhancement' and be banned? I see no difference between a male changing and using the estrogen to be able to compete unfairly against actual women then a woman using testosterone to try to compete against a man. Or non changed sexes using whatever enhancements to compete against other non changed sexes.
It just doesn't make any sense. If it did, then Lance Armstrong would still be a winner:banghead:
I applaud my fellow SRP members for the tact displayed thus far on a potentially explosive thread.
Articulate opinions and discussion between gentlemen.
Well done men.
:chapeau
Seems we mostly all agree that from the purely athletic competition perspective, TG's should not be in the same league as their biological equivalents. The differences of established genetic code is just too significant to be ignored. Bone density, muscle mass etc.
I hope the Sports authorities of the world get in front of this to create custom categories specifically for this new variable.
Backlash and resentment within the sporting, or sport supporting community could be minimized, which could go a long way towards overall acceptance, both of the athletes themselves, and the very difficult life choices made to get these people to this place in their lives.
Can't imagine all the strains of the identity issue, coupled with the real pressures of professional competitive training, all going on at the same time.
Cheers.
Meh.....A pile of ridiculous rubbish, IMO.
Some people are so self-centered, they cannot see how goofy they appear to the majority of 'regular' folks.
Back to the media for sensationalizing stupidity and telling all it is fine...
Normal even?
I tire of it all being shoved into my face. JMHO
Trophies are for the winners of a game/series/league whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by AcesandEights
These participation trophies are just silly. As we all know, there are winners and losers
Yeah, Brother Dave.....On a forum such as this. For MEN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieseld
Seems this thread is a loser. No trophy! :nono:
Almost embarrassing! JMO
So here come someone with a long explanation on 'feelings' and such.
Rubbish...
Tom, I have to agree with Mike. This thread and the members have been on point and true gentlemen.
I hope my comments haven't derailed this.
But honestly, as said, a transgender should not be able to compete with natural genders. Hormones and every other point mentioned prove this. Well in a fair competition
All I can muster is 'Whatever?'
:rofl2:
The more I think about this my opinion has become that this started with a guy that was a nobody and read the rules. What would it take to win and get my name in the record books.....
From what I see he has found a loophole or 2 in the rules and took them to his advantage.
Surely if the media had not championed it, it would have been quashed locally. I can just see a trio of female body-builders convincing the thing to find something else to do with it'self.Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
Crap! :roflmao
Yeah, nah. You all missed the point... Quite possibly the star of that video is missing a point of his /her own...
This is the length ( or lack of length now ) that a New Zealand athlete will go to beat Australia at a sport...
All jokes aside, I did not see that on the news here. I absolutely don't agree with swapping genders to win anything. I would have thought people like that have bigger problems to deal with. I am not homophobic, but I absolutely don't agree with gay marriage either.
Sorry if that offends anyone here, but hey there, read your Bible.
Why is it that even the sanctity of marriage has been over ridden with political correctness?
Each to their own, but it is rather ludicrous,and a huge joke here that people of the same sex can get married, but can't legally smoke a joint together...
Cheers for that Irishshaver, just don't see the reason behind it. Pretty sure I was still asking questions about how to shave correctly at. post 34. Request thread be closed.
Sent from a moto x far far away
This is getting a bit off-topic, as gender and sexual orientation are not the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grazor
Because marriage, apart from being a symbolic institution, has very serious legal ramifications, from taxes to child custody and inheritances.
And yes, more off-topic, I agree it's silly that marihuana is still considered the big, green monster in alot of places.
And why do you feel this thread should be closed?
Society's new view regarding transgender and sexual identity is so new that I'm sure it will evolve. Case in point, the very topic of this thread, transgenders and competitive sports is a conundrum to be sure:
Current/common way of thinking seems to be: a transgender person declaring they are the opposite sex should be regarded in all ways as such (e.g. pronoun references as their declared identity, changing sex on legal documents to declared sex, using declared sex bathrooms/locker rooms, etc) In effect, no difference than biological persons of the declared sex. Treated as and regarded as....the same in all respects.
Competitive sports: Acknowledgement by many as to the fact that biologically men and women are different and can in many sports give a biological male and by extension, a biological male declaring himself female, advantages. Advantages which some argue should prevent transgender male to female from competing with biological women. Or, create a different class in sports altogether, a transgender category (I doubt transgenders would like that idea).
Unless society embraces in totality the concept of perceived sexual identity being no different than biological identity without restriction including in competitive sports and instead has a same in nearly all respects but different in some respects related to biology (ie sports) wouldn't we as society be simply pretending or adopting fantasy as reality?
That's why I just don't think you can have it one way (transgenders are the same as biologicals they identify with) but then not another (but not the same in the case of.......).
