Printable View
Here's a 6" blade fighting knife I recently got through making for a customer and it'll shave. :) The blade has a double fuller, generous false edge on top, has been differentially heat treated, double-tempered and mirror polished. The handle is ebony with ivory inlays finished up with mosaic pinning. I just wanted to share. I was pretty happy with the way this knife turned out. :)
As you should be. It looks very nice. I'm not really one for fighting knives since I don't EVER expect to use on in a fighting situation. But it DOES look like all that and a bag of chips.
I'm not really one for knives either, but I can appreciate fine craftsmanship when I see it - looks brilliant!
James.
No custom knives for me, if custom straights weren't so expensive I would like to have one or two.
Looks great, but I have to ask. What is the difference between a fighting knife, and say a camping knife? Both cut, are sturdy, ... . Is it the strength of the spine? groove in the middle of the blade (like that on the K-bar)?
Very few fighting knives are actually used for fighting any more than genuine Samurai swords are actually used for fighting. These usually go to fairly (or extremely) wealthy individuals who collect such pieces. The attraction is the wicked, beautiful look of these weapons as presentation pieces and this is a presentation fighter. It's certainly an excellent choice for actual fighting or combat and could be carried as a weapon but that's not usually the use for these presentation knives.
The difference between a fighting knife and a camp knife is that they are designed for very different purposes. A camp knife needs to be easily sharpened, are usually pretty hefty for chopping and other heavy choes and have a utilitarian blade design, often much like a chef's knife would have. Fighting knives can either be practical, such as this one, or "fantasy design", which isn't so much practical as just plain evil looking. :) One that's a practical fighter will be light in the hand, very agressive at cutting, tough, but hard at the edges so it will take and hold a razor edge. It should be able to be held comfortably with a standard or reverse grip and usually has a very agressive tip with a false edge for stabbing as well as slicing. The fullers lighten the weight and balance. It should be very nimble. It should also have very good finger guards so that cutting off a few fingers while using it isn't a likelihood and it should also be, in my opinion, very secure in the hand with a strong hook at the butt section so it can't slip from the hand when wet or when trying to extract the blade.
Think of hand to hand querilla combat during a wartime situation when you think of fighting knives. These utilitarian pieces would be "tactical fighters", similar in design but with much less focus on a polished fit and finish with high end materials. Micarta handles and brush finishes are pretty standard fare for tactical knives meant for every day carry by law enforcement, military, etc.
I make it a firm policy to never take a knife to a gunfight.
Believe it or not, a knife is more dangerous in close quarters (less than 12 feet) than a gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonedangerousli
Police are taught that anyone armed with a knife should be considered a deadly threat at 12 feet or less.
Guns make a bullet sized hole. A knife can do so much damage with one stroke that survival is a virtual impossibility. Best bet is avoiding both gunfights and knife fights. :)
Actually knife "fights" are rarely what we think of as classic knife vs. knife hand combat. It's usually one guy armed with a knife dispatching someone who isn't armed with a knife. This kind of stuff is really common in the worst parts of South Africa and the Phillipines and some other places where knives are the weapons of choice.
Here are a few of my Customs
Takeda Ajikiri
2x Harner utilities
Carter KU Nakiri
I like custom knives that I can use, so I focus on kitchen knives. I'm putting together a set of custom carbon knives from different makers. So far I have what I think is the top of the list with Carter and Takeda, now to figure out the next 3... :gth
Wow...those are some real nice looking tomatoes!
(...hey...what can I say....I'm on a diet!...)
Seriously, though, not being a knife guy, I was surprised to see that the 2 Harners weren't at the top of your list....they are the most visually appealing....heck, if I saw the other two at a garage sale, I'd offer, what, maybe two or three bucks......five tops. Those flashy Harners, though, well, I'd dig deep for those.....
....just goes to show.....flash sells.
nice knives.
-whatever
-Lou
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBull
More like 25 feet. That distance can be closed faster than most people can clear their leather. In many CQB situations, a gun can be utterly useless next a knife with only a semi-skilled wielder that generally knows what he (or she) is doing. Knives can do much more damage than a gun or rifle in one go-'round. That is why the Army is really starting to get back to the basics on some of the bayonet and knife instruction, along with armed (knife, bludgeon) and unarmed combatives. They always taught bayonet, but no one ever really cared to take the time to "really" teach how to use it. Now, things have changed. The Marines - well they always taught it, and a lot...
Looks very nice and practical. I have just one remark / question: From my martial arts days I remember my teacher telling me that he had seen people cut the palms of their hands to the bone while stabbing at someone because their hands slipped from the handle to the blade.
Looking at the handle on this knife, doesn't this one carry the same risk if the handle is slippery from blood / rain?
My teacher told me that most knives designed to be used in combat have a small bump or plate between the handle and the blade that is shaped to prevent the index finger / little finger (depending on how you hold it) sliding from the handle even if you would hit a solid object while stabbing.
Massad Ayoob teaches 21 feet.
21 feet can be covered by the average person in 1.5 seconds which is slightly faster than the average draw of roughly 2 seconds.
Since holster security (read- hard to get out) has improved it is good policy (read- a good idea if you don't want to die) to unholster your weapon if the individual in question is within 21 (more like 30 as far as I'm concerned) feet.
If someone is really close I would prefer to leave my gun locked in the holster and use my hands (read- knife).
I posted this elsewhere but watch this video.
If you are interested in a martial art that deals with knives then go look for Silat in your area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYAXjKkLmJs
There are a couple of gun take-aways that aren't shown here.
GOD I hate to link you to Tom Cruise!
This one is basic. I call it the Pimpslap
Just hold up your hands like you don't want trouble and slap the gun down when they poke it in your face. The gun WILL hit the ground or end up pointed back at them.
Then cut their head off.:tu
oh yeah, and I prefer kerambits.
Made any of those? even if not, nice knife.
Maybe not the best fighter but very pretty.
also, just thought I would add,
I spend 4 hours a week gettin my ass whooped like the guy in the video and still have trouble defending and generally can't even get off a shot (airsoft) before having my weapon stripped and getting stabbed 5 or 13 times (rubber knife)
knives are fantastic weapons if you know how to use one and don't hesitate
That's why the deep finger and pinky recess are made the way they are, Bruno. They're countoured to make extraction of the knife easy (without a hilt catching on anything) but deep enough to provide an extremely secure grip when stabbing no matter how hard the object is struck. Getting cut on your knifehand by your own knife is bad news in a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Without actualy holding it I cannot judge how it would fit in my hand. My gut feeling is that I'd feel more secure if the recession was not so rounded near the blade, or even better if it curved back slightly so that I knew that my hand would never slip off despite the impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBull
But I will take our word for it. It's not like I have experience in either forging or wielding such a blade. :)
One time my teacher was attacked by a big man who was high on coke or crack, holding a large blade without hilt. he was on bouncer duty in a rough place. anyway he quickly stepped inside and slammed the glass door shut behind him. The other guy tried to stab through the glass... :eek:
His hand slipped off the handle and he nearly severed all of his fingers.
Ever since teach told me I cannot help but remember whenever I see a fighting knife.
Great knives ... I was thinking along the same lines as Bruno about a guard to prevent the hand slipping onto the blade (when a thrust hits bone instead of flesh ... or a door :eek: ) Personally, I prefer a (dunno what they're calld but stick out on the bottom and maybe the top of the knife too, where blade meets handle, making it look like a 't') ... one of those. And of course, if we're talking combat knives, that protects your hand from your opponent's blade as well.
I'm more interested in steel and construction than flash :shrug: I love rustic carbon steel knives. But than again my "Combat Knives" are different than others would consider :pQuote:
Originally Posted by scarface
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...f/DSC00001.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...f/DSC00007.jpg
Mmmm no more production pics... sorry couldn't resist though :rolleyes:
While this would be the best course of action with untrained knife wielders, I have seen demonstrations on TV of Pekiti Tirsia (a filipino fighting technique) by special forces where they trained to use a knife against opponents with firearms. Of course, their aim was to silently move in to free a hostage... Pretty scary to see what a trained guy can do with a knife.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonedangerousli
I have also heard that in Japan they still consider a sword (i.e. a katana) more dangerous than a firearm. Which is understandable, because unlike a firearm, a blade doesn't run out of ammunition. On the other hand, the degree of danger is relative to the skill of the wielder of the blade, whereas a firearm is dangerous in almost anyone's hands.
As a side note: When I did my military service as a guard, there was one instance where we were taught the proper way of giving warning, firing a warning shot and then firing to incapacitate an attacker, where the leader of the exercise told me that I saw a guy with a knife 10 meters away. I thought to myself: 10 meters... in the time it would take me to shout "halt", "halt or I'll shoot", cock the weapon, fire a warning shot, and then aim to fire at the suspect's legs, I would already be on the ground with a slit throat and multiple stab wounds. Totally unrealistic exercise, in other words.
Just to add to the thread: A couple of the knives I've made, from commercially available bare blades.
I'll agree that a knife can make serious damage and should be considered a deadly weapon. As a paramedic I had the opportunity to work on victims of both firearm and edged weapon attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBull
Pistols make bullet sized holes, going IN. .45 cal 230 gr Hydrashoks center mass. My 12 ga loaded with 000 buck at 12'. I'll take either against a knife any day.:gthLOL. J.
In close quarters that shotgun will be terribly clumsy.
You had better keep your distance if you point it at someone. If you come close enough to the person you are holding at gunpoint he can take you out before you know it.
On of the stupid things you see in movies is people holding a gun to someone elses back/head. Doing that in real life is a surefire way to end up lying on your back without a gun, wondering what just happened.
Have you ever seen the movie 'heat' with Robert DeNiro and Al Pacino?
Someone is holding a gun to DeNiro's back outside a hotel room, and the way he disarms that man is how I was taught to do it.
Given that the only place that a person might have to opportunity to be on the business end of my shotgun (Remington 870, 26" barrel, pistol grip) is in my home I can guarantee you that they are not going to get within 12' of it. I don't "point" it at anyone. If I'm in a situation that I feel the need to pick it up I'm going to use it. Period. I have a small house that is relatively easy to defend- there are no areas that would be out of range, so if I've picked it up I am going to use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I think Tom Cruise is the biggest nerd ever but here is a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI1_-a0coag
Although I grew up in the country and found handguns to be totally useless for most of my life, since I have come to the city I believe that they have their place.
I keep my HK USP9 on the headboard (shelf setup) loaded with the hottest ammo going. 127gr black talon @ 1300 fps
This essentially makes it a 16 shot 357 Mag.
In the closet I have a Winchester 1300 (I firmly believe that the 870 is responsible for the poor reputation shotguns have earned in law enforcement)
with a specific rotation of ammo.
#1) Slug (Federal HI-SHOK 3" 1OZ) got the drop on them :D
#2) Slug the shock of seeing his friends head explode will get the second guy to stand real still for me
#3) Buck (3"15 pellet OO) now we're movin !!
#4) Buck got em on the run baby !!
#5) Slug in case they find something to hide behind, like the drivers side door of a speeding away car !!
Winchester won't sell "Talons" to the public anymore nor to they still use that name.
They are now called "Ranger SXT" (same exact thing?) and are only sold to law enforcement.
There is an SXT available in stores but it's not the same thing.
And yes, yes they are very sharp.
Average expansion was .64 inches, originally .354.
What was the topic here again? :shrug:
At one point somewhere, although I can't remember if it was this thread, I'd asked you what rifle?Quote:
Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr
I like your ammo rotation, btw. I keep a handful of slugs for reloading, although if 5 didn't do the trick I'm prbly f*cked anyway.
oh yeah, it was the immigration bill thread.
I hadn't responded because..... it's more that you want to know
Winchester Model 70 Black Shadow......$500
300 Win Mag
hand lapped 26" barrel (done myself)
original fiberglass stock has been glass and pillar bedded w/ 2 pounds upward pressure at tip of fore stock (done myself)....$20
C&H mercury recoil reducer fitted in buttstock ....don't remember, $100 maybe?
Pacmyr (sp) Triple Magnum after market recoil pad ....$50
Harris (I think) telescoping bi-pod 12- 24 inch .....$110
1907 shooting sling (had it) .....$20
Simmons 44 Mag 12.5 - 20X lighted Mil-Dot reticle ......$120 on clearance
Leupold rings and bases.......$65
trigger pull reduced to 1 1/2 pounds (done myself)
Lyman T-Star press .....$60
Lee Dies...... $25
8 pounds MilSurp IMR 7828...... $45
Sierra Matchking boat tail hollow point 190 grain box of 100....$29.49
100 federal large rifle primers #210........ $2.29
( I omitted a large number of reloading tools and facts here because it's all gibberish to you anyway)
Shoots 1 5/8 @ 300 five shots from a cold barrel
Knowing that if I can see it, I can kill it.........priceless :tu
One of my fellow instructors studied Pekiti Tirsia. It's beyond pretty scary to see what a trained guy can do with a knife. The number of cuts delivered in under a second was mind boggling. He's shared a little of his training with a few of us, started working on the basic ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by minstrel
And GW is right. Inside of 21 feet, a knife guy wins over a gun practically every single time. We experimented with this a few years ago during part of our martial arts training. I know 21 feet sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. If a police officer can't draw his sidearm from a duty holster, drawing from a concealed rig seems to be a near impossible deal.
Given that I'm just about 100% sure that I'm not going to have a martial arts expert break into my home I'm pretty confident that we'll never have to find out. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei_kyle
Mr Joni
If you would like to add a couple slugs you should try these.
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_s...Mini-Slug.html
I think they go 3 for 2 in the mag ie. take out 2 buck and put in 3 slugs
(don't hold me to it)
Seems to me I could fit 9 or so in a 5 round mag and like 14 in a 8 round.
a 386 gr .72 diameter bullet at 1250 fps is nothing to scoff at either.
Not to mention the reduced risk of shooting your neighbor.... in the 6th house down.... two blocks over.... :thinking:
I have concrete inner walls in my house though so I use full power ammo. :shrug:
Make em take cover !!! :roflmao
GW, have you tried these mini-slugs? I think I'm going to order a case to try.
This distance counts for anyone, regardless of training.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonedangerousli
as far as draw time... I carry Mexican a lot so my concealment might be better than my duty rig.
This 21 standard was established as "dang I almost got one off " range in the 80's
Most cops then were using level 1 holsters
almost all now use level 4
level 1 = snap strap
level 2 = locking rotating hood
level 3 = an additional lock to keep the hood from unlocking (you lock the lock)
level 4 = something like ALS that requires a button to me manipulated inside the holster release the weapon or having to rock or twist the weapon in a certain sort of way.
Although these advances in weapon retention capabilities (it took everyone at least 1 minute to release my weapon from it's holster (level 3) when I just handed it to them and told them to take their time, imagine under duress) they have slowed the draw and no doubt cost officers their lives due to a lack of other options causing an over reliance on thier sidearm.
There is also a level 14 holster which involves having Lou follow you around until someone tries a gun grab. At this point Lou starts mumbling..... ...."whatever"
.... which diverts the assailants attention away from you allowing you to draw and fire unimpeded.........
Gotcha. I was trying to preempt a possible "martial arts v. firearm" discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr
That's funny right there. whateverQuote:
Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr
LOL, J.
So was I.
There is no argument to have.
I am a gun nut AND involved in martial arts.
A basic understanding of military combatives will improve your odds, but mostly by making you realize the limitations of your weapon.
If I had to choose, I shit you not, between my proficiency in firearms (which is, to borrow a phrase from R. Lee Ermy " OUT-FUCKING-STANDING" )
and just being "real good" at a decent martial art (one of the FMA maybe)
I would choose the martial art without a moments hesitation.
Run (what the hell is up with the text??) a drill Joni.
Put a big box behind the door so it can't smash the wall and have someone kick the door real hard(while unlatched of course) and try to charge where you sleep.
See how that ol bird gun works. It's a real reality check I'll tell you.
hell, have them run to every other room first, it's still humbling.
damn I'm off topic:(
LOL @ OT.
I sleep very lightly. Part of that is a throwback to working 24 hr shifts at the ambulance service. The "bird gun (LOL)" is next to my headboard. My house is a split level, master bedroom is at the top of 8 stairs. From the time the alarm sounds it takes me 5 seconds to be locked, loaded and aimed at the door. Trust me on this one. Unless he's wearing body armour it won't be a contest.
Are you guys preparing for urban warfare? is it that common to be assaulted in your own home?
I saw someone's sig line that said (paraphrased) "I'd rather live my life like there was a God and find out that there wasn't than vice versa". For me it's something like that. I realize the odds of a home invasion in my neighborhood are pretty slim. I don't lie awake at night thinking about it, nor do I normally talk about it. This thread just seemed to move in that direction. I believe in being prepared, not just in this situation but in general, if that makes any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I found a good set of stats but this thing won't accept the format:shrug:
http://www.city-data.com/city/Orlando-Florida.html
go about half way down the page for crime stats
There were 58 murders in Orlando in 06.
They don't differentiate between burglaries and home invasions (what city would want to publish that data?) but in the last year I think I have written reports on 7 that occurred while i was on property (whichever property it was)
Of course I do work in the ghetto (non-jewish version) but you are crazy if you think that these people never leave the low income areas.
I personally knew two people who have been killed by home invaders.
One was from Kissimmee who I knew quite well, and the other from Poinciana who worked at an auto parts store I used to frequent.
(I admittedly have rather bad luck/ have lived in the less "Dunwoody" areas of town)
I was unable to find links to the news articles.. well.. because there were so many returns on a search for " Kissimmee man killed in home invasion "
Try searching for it.
LOL, I live on the cheap side of Dunwoody. I actually have an Atlanta address, but the street signs are Dunwoody. I only say I live in Dunwoody when I'm trying to impress someone, LOL. (Well, that and if you say you live in Atlanta you then have to narrow it down a little).Quote:
Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr
I know it's not always a low income neighborhood where home invasions occur. I was banking on my neighborhood being less affluent than some of the others in the area. If I were going to break into a place I'd be more likely to find one that looked like they actually had something to steal...
Much to my wife's chagrin, I have sharp objects all over the house.
Of course, we also have three rather large dogs; one very LARGE black lab mix, one pure chocolate lab and one basset hound. None of them are particularly fond of intruders. Any of the three would be enough to discourage even rather determined idiots from attempting a home invasion. Combined, they're a rather formidable obstacle and a truly superior alarm system.
We also live on a street that' sbusy enough to make it undesireable as a break-in target.
To make matters worse, the guy who owns this house, dogs and all those sharp objects has a really bad attitude when it comes to unwelcome guests.
I don't lose any sleep over home invasions, either. It would take a particularly stupid, determined and suicidal criminal to try us out and I rest comfortably knowing it would almost certainly be a career-ending mistake for anyone inclined to try.
I sleep next to 3 knifes within reaching distance. My black powder-coated fixed blade, full tang with wrapped hilt that my girlfriend got for me:D (6in blade) is right next to my head on the bed. In the sheath not out in the open!On the dresser pushed up against my bed i have my 4 in bladed serrated folder and my victorinox fireman pocket knife i use for work within reach. when I move out ill get into firearms more, but for now this is best because i have such a small house theres no time or space for anything else. I like to be prepared for anything that could happen no matter how unlikely it is. hmm what to do about aliens....:hmmm: