Sicko the Movie

Personally I think HSA are another fraud perpetrated by the health industry. So the young put their money into these cheap plans and since most don't use them the health industry makes money on the administration end of these plans. meanwhile the pool of people who are insured on standard plans produces a smaller pool of sicker people so the premiums go up for them and the health industry makes more money again. Once the younger people get old and their health deteriorates they will find these cheaper plans will not cover their needs and whatever money they have saved in their accounts will be gone with one illness and they will be indebted to the health industry for the rest of their lives so who wins again? As long as the health industry has their lobbyists they are in the drivers seat and things will never change in this country.

From postings here it appears that there are pros and cons for the health system in the US, and that the movie sort of maybe portrayed things in not too much of a beat up manner.

From my perspective here in Australia we have what we call Medicare which is a government run national healthcare system. It also has it's pros and cons, and as the nation seems to be growing older, so do the waiting lists for non life threatening procedures. It does seem to be a bottomless money pit, and it never seems to be enough money in the kitty, and I suppose there never will be.

I pay 1.5% of my gross income towards the Medicare levy which is taken directly from my taxes, so I don't ever see the money, so it's no big deal for me. On top of that I also pay approximately $180 per month for private health insurance, which covers me for every possible scenario. I can choose which ever specialist of my choice, which hospital, private room, etc etc. Also covers dental as well as pharmaceutical. From memory I have to pay the first $300 on any hospital visit up to a maximum of 3 visits per year, any more than that then its free. This cover is for myself, my wife, and my child.

Overall it is a fairly good system, but I would think that the size of the population would have a large plus for why it is working for us, even though at times it does seem to be hemorrhaging internally......................

Cheers
John

Taken from the official government web page.............

The Australian Health System
The Australian health system is widely regarded as being world-class, in terms of both its effectiveness and efficiency. The system is a mixture of public and private sector health service providers and a range of funding and regulatory mechanisms:

The Australian government with the primary role of developing broad national policies, regulation and funding.
State and Territory and Local governments who are primarily responsible for the delivery and management of public health services and for maintaining direct relationships with most health care providers, including regulation of health professionals and private hospitals.
Private practitioners including general practitioners, specialists and consultant physicians.
Profit and non-profit organisations and voluntary agencies.
The Australian Government’s funding includes three major national subsidy schemes, Medicare, the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme and the 30% Private Health Insurance Rebate.

Medicare and the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme cover all Australians and subsidise their payments for private medical services and for a high proportion of prescription medicines. Under Medicare, the Australian and State governments also jointly fund public hospital services so they are provided free of charge to people who choose to be treated as public patients. Australian Government funding of the 30% Rebate and other key incentives support people’s choice to take up and retain private health insurance.

People make their contribution to the health care system through taxes and the Medicare levy based on their income, and through private financing such as private health insurance.

The aim of the national health care funding system is to give all Australians, regardless of their personal circumstances, access to health care at an affordable cost or at no cost, while allowing choice for individuals through substantial private sector involvement in delivery and financing.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Personally I think HSA are another fraud perpetrated by the health industry. So the young put their money into these cheap plans and since most don't use them the health industry makes money on the administration end of these plans. meanwhile the pool of people who are insured on standard plans produces a smaller pool of sicker people so the premiums go up for them and the health industry makes more money again. Once the younger people get old and their health deteriorates they will find these cheaper plans will not cover their needs and whatever money they have saved in their accounts will be gone with one illness and they will be indebted to the health industry for the rest of their lives so who wins again? As long as the health industry has their lobbyists they are in the drivers seat and things will never change in this country.

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This is true and I agree that HSAs are not the answer, but as a relatively young/middle aged person, I simply can't afford to continue to pay so much for other people's care. Again, I really don't know what the solution is. At this point I'm just trying to get by.

I really think better management of the chronically sick and other difficult decisions on high cost, but questionable services (most would be shocked at what does in fact get paid for by insurance and or the government) are an important place to start.

Oh, and the doctors, hospitals and pharmacy industry have lobbyists too and they are as much a part of the problem as the insurance industry. Don't let them fool you. Also, nobody likes to say this, but we the public need to take more responsibility for our health as well as wise usage of health care services.


Jordan

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Originally Posted by jnich67

. Also, nobody likes to say this, but we the public need to take more responsibility for our health as well as wise usage of health care services.


Jordan

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Now that's a novel idea ----- personal responsibility? ---nah !! -- I'd rather somebody else be responsible for me , it's a lot easier. ;)

Justin

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Originally Posted by jnich67

This is true and I agree that HSAs are not the answer, but as a relatively young/middle aged person, I simply can't afford to continue to pay so much for other people's care. Again, I really don't know what the solution is. At this point I'm just trying to get by.

I really think better management of the chronically sick and other difficult decisions on high cost, but questionable services (most would be shocked at what does in fact get paid for by insurance and or the government) are an important place to start.

Oh, and the doctors, hospitals and pharmacy industry have lobbyists too and they are as much a part of the problem as the insurance industry. Don't let them fool you. Also, nobody likes to say this, but we the public need to take more responsibility for our health as well as wise usage of health care services.


Jordan

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Imagine that! taking responsibility for oneself! What would the world become?:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by jaegerhund

Now that's a novel idea ----- personal responsibility? ---nah !! -- I'd rather somebody else be responsible for me , it's a lot easier. ;)

Justin

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If I REMEMBER correctly, that's the American way!!!




......but let's not kick THAT particular sleeping dog!!(...grrrrrrr!:cen)


-whatever

-Lou

SERENITY NOW!!!!

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Originally Posted by scarface

If I REMEMBER correctly, that's the American way!!!




......but let's not kick THAT particular sleeping dog!!(...grrrrrrr!:cen)


-whatever

-Lou

SERENITY NOW!!!!

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:roflmao:roflmao:roflmao
It took me a second to catch your reference Lou.

I just saw the movie for the first time tonight. I haven't visited this thread until now because I believe I know what direction the thread is going with the left wing saying, "That's tellin' 'em" and the right wing saying, "That ain't the truth".

I try to live with uncertainty and doubt in my life as it's the primary building block of critical thought and healthy skepticism. I even question my rather firm belief in Socialism regularly. Seeing Sicko helped me reaffirm the facts about socialised health care. That unequivocally and in every way, the statistics bear out that (I know .. lies, damned lies and statistics, but) it is better than private health care. Lifespan, infant mortality, recuperation rates, quality of care etc. These facts are indisputable. The capitalists (corporatists really, might as well call a spade a spade) may deliver their opinions that corporate run health systems are more efficient or more appropriate for people, but they're wrong.

I encourage American's to do the right thing and demand Medicare of America. America demands your love and obedience, Americans. I say it's high time they earned it from you.

X

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Originally Posted by Geoff

My impression was recent changes to the bankruptcy laws in the US have made it far more difficult, if not impossible, to go this route.

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Having just been through a bankruptcy and getting to spend time talking to my attorney about the new laws this advice still makes sense the courts will leave you with a place to live (maybe not your house) and enough income to do so. Your debt collection agents would flay you to the bone, then sell the bones for soup.

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Originally Posted by Geoff

That just seems insane; pleased to hear you came out of it comparatively cheaply though.

In Canada you can end up waiting over a year for joint replacement or other non 'urgent' surgery which I get the impression doesn't happen in the US assuming you have insurance or enough cash.

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This is very interesting anyone like me who lives near enough to Canada sees or has talked to Canadian patients in our hospitals, paying cash, to have things like joint replacement or back or other not quite immediately urgent procedures done just so they don't have to put up with the pain while waiting for the top of the list.

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Originally Posted by Geoff

On the other hand I can have all the heart attacks I want for free. I have heard on other forums women contemplating whether or not the co-pay was worth it to have a lump checked out in the US though and that just seems unthinkable. Certainly if you have a diagnostic need like a lump, bad cough, potentially broken bone, mri, etc. it is a no brainer to just go to the hospital here.

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Originally Posted by Geoff

An emergency room visit will cost you ~3 hours of your life in line waiting (assuming non-critical injury) but not a penny in cash.

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Honestly the biggest problem with some of the diagnostic tests is the way they keep racking up. You get advised to get one test and they have done ten before the results are back from the first one. More accurate, sure, but I think It is often a case of a doctor either covering his a$$ or running up the bill (greed or fear the bane of civilization).

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Originally Posted by Geoff

An emergency room visit will cost you ~3 hours of your life in line waiting (assuming non-critical injury) but not a penny in cash.

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Same here even with the most basic insurance you would pay about 20% of the costs if anyone ever actually got around to paying.

Since this health care stuff is a tiny bit off the original topic, which is a Moore film I thought I'd toss my two cents out there about the film.

Frankly I've never seen it. I won't be seeing it. He has stretched the truth too many times in the past for me to give him any credibility. No matter how many "truths" he comes up with I don't think he is trustworthy enough to listen to. He may be right on for the rest of his life but for me his opinions are moot.

You might think this is just a right wing hate talk or something, but really despite my political views I value honesty much more than my own point of view. (probably why I enjoy this type of thread so much).

My actually feelings on the health care system keep shifting even as I read this thread. My basic feeling is that I am a better steward of my money than the Government will ever be. The government always ends up paying far to much for too little service. And Doctors have too much ego, and sometimes not enough honesty or knowledge.

Where does that place my opinion. A bit on the free market side, I think we would do better to have a competitive system where costs would stay low. In order for that to happen, however, there has to be a way to shop for what you want. All of us are guilty (including HMO's and the Govt) of not asking enough questions and not finding the lowest cost for quality places to get care. We far to often just go where we are told to and do whatever the doctors want, imagine buying a used care this way.